American Leak Detection came out....what do you think

[AndieP]

We have been dealing with a leak all summer. It has gotten worse....to the point where we really can't run the pump for any length of time b/c we are losing so much water that the skimmer is sucking air even with the hose running in the pool.

We live in a small town so getting someone to even come out was not easy but American Leak Detection came yesterday. Spent 2 hrs listening, testing, listening, testing....and ended up saying "it's in the return line" (which I already knew ) but they weren't able to locate the exact spot b/c it sounds like it is deep in the ground. They are thinking the plumbing may be under the pool....has anyone ever seen or heard of this?
The guy says he hears the leak the best in the deep end using an underwater listening device or something like that.

Anyway, they came back today and say that the best way to deal with this is to plug off the return port and abandon that line and drill a new port and run new plumbing. They are suggesting putting the new port in the deep end not too far from the skimmer b/c it's closest to the pump. All of this to the tune of about $3K

Oh and they plugged the return line before they left and we still lost a small amount of water. So, I guess that means there is still another leak that they didn't find since he spent the entire 2 hrs listening & testing the one return line.

Any one have any comments or suggestions on these recommendations? We're thinking we need to get another estimate but have no idea but pool repair costs.

This is depressing.

23,000 gallon IG guinite

[rbonin]

Andie - My thoughts:

I never heard of return plumbing being "under the pool", but I suppose anything is possible. It is certainly under the pool decking.

Returns are usually opposite the skimmer (not near it) for efficient skimming.

A second leak is depressing, but possible if insufficient winterization was the problem.

A second opinion would definitely be desireable since you are looking at a bunch of money, but small towns can be difficult in that regard and time is of the essence since the leak is significant.

Given what my pool cost to build, $3,000 does not sound unreasonable to me if they do a good job.

Good luck,
~Rick~

[chrisexv6]

Had a leak in our plumbing last year as well. Shallow end return, paid a company to pressure test it (just to be 100% sure where the leak was). They also gave me a quote to fix it....with me digging the trench they wanted 450.00 to run the new line and connect it to the existing return port.

Honestly, I dont see why American wont just cut the existing line off the existing return jet and then run another line to the same return jet, unless this return jet is really close to the bottom of the pool (but it doesnt make sense a return would be that low). In my case I took out a 1'x1' chunk of concrete directly above where the return is, dug down to the return, cut the existing line then ran a new line from the pump to the existing return jet. Used ultra-high-pressure flex line with a secondary barrier built into it to stop rocks from cutting the line. From now on Ill make sure its winterized correctly.

-Chris

[AndieP]

Thank you for the replies.

I guess I am just really uncomfortable with the whole thing. He spent 2 hrs on this one return line and really couldn't tell us anything more than..."it's in the return line." Is it important to be able to tell more than that? Like where the leak is exactly? Or is that irrelevant?

Secondly, they plugged the return line (only have 1) and we still lost water overnight. Not as much but we still lost water. They are saying the $3k price will not include finding further problems I have since plugged the skimmer also to see if that makes any difference.

The return is at the shallow end and the pump is on the opposite end. They originally suggested rerouting the return that is there but then said it would have to go all around the pool in the yard. They didn't give me a quote for doing that though. Maybe that would be cheaper...I really don't see how it could be more expensive.


We really don't know what to do

[sailork]

Did they plug both ends of the return? Could it be siphoning into the skimmer through the pump and out underneath the pool?

[sevver]

I have seen leak detectors at work before, alot of the "tools" they use are pretty amazing, like tinfoil hat amazing in my opinion. I have seen them come close, and get lucky, but never super sure of themselves and absolutely never a guarantee beyond what you could figure out without them.

I have found that if you have a pipe full of water, and plug both ends with econoplugs or bladder plugs, and introduce compressed air slowly into the line, if you use a stethoscope and listen to the concrete, the combination of the air and water going through the leak makes alot more noise and is easier to locate. We have found some leaks under floors in waterlines like this before.

How long of a run is it to just trench a new line in from the jet to the pump? You could go straight out of the concrete into the grass or yard and then over to the pump and back in again. Basically reroute it so it does not require alot of sawcutting. Good luck, hope everything works out for you.

[chrisexv6]

If you are going to abandon the line, its more important to know which line is leaking than it is to know *where* the line is leaking. In my case, we never did find where the leak was, we just cut the existing line short of the return and ran a new one. Ran the new line 99% in my yard, with the minimum amount of line necessary running under the concrete. This way next time (please no next time?) I can just dig it out of the yard and replace.

As far as losing water when the return was plugged, our leak did that too. Turned out that the plug itself was leaking, so its very possible you only have one issue. Then again, its also very possible whatever caused this issue has caused another one as well. Plugging all other openings (like it seems you are trying) is the best way to narrow that down.

-Chris

[AndieP]

As far as plugging both end of the return...I don't know...he did take a piece of the pipe off over at the filter (and just left it off )

So it seems finding the exact spot of the leak isn't that important? Just the pipe that it is in. Which, I suppose has been done. It seems abandoning the line is the only option since they were unable to find the spot of the leak. They drilled probably 5 or 6 holes around the concrete, which I guess did not help.

I think I will get quotes from somewhere else on just running a new line out and around the yard from the existing jet. It's a long way...about 100ft but going the other way would mean tearing up more concrete b/c the yard ends and the porch begins after about 30 ft.

So, is our best bet to try to get this fixed first and then deal with any further leaks afterwards? This is an older pool .... probably about 25 years old so other leaks could be possible (hoping not)

Thanks for your continued help....we are fairly new at taking care of and learning about pools so this problem has thrown us for a loop.

[sevver]

Maybe it is time to run all new lines then, What do you have, two returns and two skimmers?

[AndieP]

Maybe it is time to run all new lines then, What do you have, two returns and two skimmers?

1 skimmer, 1 return, and apparently a main drain that has been plugged. The previous owners just told us "there is no main drain." There is something that looks like a main drain that has a plug in it.