CYA for Salt Chlorinator Pools II

[PatL34]

Karin & Others,

The 60 - 80 ppm CYA recommended by the SWCG manufacturers is because the cell instantaneously creates a high concentration of chlorine, and kills the chloramines as well.

Without the high CYA, the chlorine would be used up rapidly before it gets into the body of the pool.

With my SWCG, a 50 - 60 ppm CYA level appears to work fine. So 50 ppm you are using is in the ballpark.

Regarding the staining, it could well come from your fill water, but others with more experience can help you. Have you tried to brush this stain? To my knowledge CYA does not stain, otherwise we would be using something else.

Your water chemistry apart from the CYA is also in the ballpark, and I can well understand your frustration with 4 pool stores giving you different readings, so I take them with a pinch of salt (pun intended) They do not know how to be consistent. Once you do it yourself the same identical way each time, you will be less frustrated

mas985, I would use option #2, based on what I said at the beginning. The cell should produce the chlorine regardless, and if not you can always aise the output. A bit of trial & error. I have not heard of CYA dissolving plaster pools. That's a new one to me. Will have to investigate.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[Karin]

Well, I went to the horse's mouth and called up Aqua Rite to ask them about their higher recommended CYA levels. After 10 minutes of listening to some vintage elevator music, the rep told me that the chlorine that a SWCG makes is different than the regular chlorine you just add to a pool.

That's why they want a higher CYA---to protect it from sunburn.

Was she just trying to get me to hang up, or does that sound plausible? Hmmm...

[tonyl]

I think you'll have to experiment a bit on your CYA levels. I keep mine within the recommended range due to full sun exposure. I think most pools would be fine with 50ppm and after all, stabilizer isn't cheap.

[waterbear]

Well, I went to the horse's mouth and called up Aqua Rite to ask them about their higher recommended CYA levels. After 10 minutes of listening to some vintage elevator music, the rep told me that the chlorine that a SWCG makes is different than the regular chlorine you just add to a pool.

That's why they want a higher CYA---to protect it from sunburn.

Was she just trying to get me to hang up, or does that sound plausible? Hmmm...

She told you the same thing that PatL34 stated above and the same thing that I have stated in other threads. There is a difference between manually chlorinating and producing chlorine by electrolysis. I have spoken to tech support at Goldline Controls, Poolsean, who is in this forum and works for AutoPilot Systems (Pool Pilot SWG's), and some of the dealer literature that I have access to from my job (the store I work at sell several brands of SWGs) all are saying the same thing. It is better to run the CYA level higher in a pool with a SWG. I run mine at 70 ppm with my Aqualogic PS-8 (Goldline Controls). I also test a lot of water all day and can access histories of test results. About half our customers have SWG's installed and there are several that have been running CYA at 30-50 ppm. I have notices that these people have not been able to maintain adequite FC levels, run their cells at very high outputs, and some have had problems with algae blooms, including Mustard Algae. I have not seen any of these problems in the ones running higher CYA levels and keeping the FC at about 3 ppm or slightly higher. It is a small sample, maybe about 50 or 60 customers but the trend I have seen is unmistakable!

[mas985]

Here is the CYA article about plaster and CYA:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n15932555

Although this probably applys more to very high CYA, this was why I was reluctant to go to higher CYA levels. I may end up going a bit higher anyway.

[waterbear]

Here is the CYA article about plaster and CYA:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n15932555

Although this probably applys more to very high CYA, this was why I was reluctant to go to higher CYA levels. I may end up going a bit higher anyway.

The sudy was done by ARCH chemicals! These are the same people who put copper into trichlor pucks. I am sure they are talking about CYA levels well above 100 ppm! There is also evidence that sulfates from using dry acid can affect the plaster so there can be multiple causes for damage to the plaster finish. The article did state that ARCH chemical recommeded switching between trichlor and other forms of chlorine to keep stabilzier levels from going too high. Does this mean that they are starting to read the Pool Forum? Seem like THAT piece of advice has been given on here for a very long time!

[dep78737]

Looks like the SWG manufacturers understand their products better than we do. It's in their best interest to suggest CYA/CL levels that will work in a vast majority of pools, otherwise people would be cursing them instead of singing their praises. Partially based on advice in this forum, my CYA was around 40 last year and I kept having to crank up the output. Raised it to 60 this year and now run at 40-50% instead of 60-70%. FC levels are more stable and acid use is down also, maybe since it's working less and maybe since the plaster is now 2 yrs old.

[waterbear]

If your cell output is down your pH should not drift up as quickly since you are manufacturing less sodium hydroxide! Another reason to run the cya a little higher! Actually, your results are pretty typical of the things I have seen with my customers when viewing their histories. The vase majority of them bring water in for testing weekly or bi weekly and the LaMotte software we use allows me to graph test results which makes spotting these trends easy to see. (Now you all know what I do when I get bored at work!)

[bbb]

Great thread - thanks to everyone posting.

For what it's worth - I'm on my first year with a Pool Pilot, and *have* been able to keep FC in the pool even with CYA in the 30 range (28K gallon pool, 48 size cell, power level 2, 20% to 33% usage). I have been debating about where to keep my CYA levels, too. I have kept my new solar cover on at all times this year except for when we actually are using the pool. One theory is that my blue/silver solar cover has helped me maintain a higher FC level in the pool, since there is less sunlight hitting the water. I chose blue/silver because I wanted to preserve heat from my heat pump.

However, thanks to all these discussions, and the fact that we are now in full summer "school is out" mode - meaning more time with the cover off and a higher bather load) I bought 2 bottles of hth brand CYA at my local hardware store to raise the level to around 50-60. Interestingly, the hth bottle is starting to warn people of CYA levels -- it says 20-40 is ideal, and it also says that chlorine effectiveness is severely limited over 100.

One other boast - I used plenty of borax to stabilize my ph last year, and added more this spring. My ph has been constant at 7.2 all year! My theory - lots and lots of acidic rain in the Northeast this year. So I expect the ph to eventually drift up -- although we have rain in the forecast for each of the next 7 days...

Related boast - between the rain and the solar cover, I have not added one drop of water to the pool - on the contrary, I have had to drain inches off several times!

Final boast - 2nd year of bbb, perfect water every day this year - nothing added to pool except bleach (pre-SWG), polyquat (early spring, to make sure no algae before the cover came off), baking soda (to bring my alk up in early spring), and borax (pre-SWG, to bring ph up to 7.4, though it never moved)

last reading:
FC 3
CC 0
CYA 30 (will raise to around 60 for SWG, but no worries)
TA 90 (may raise with some baking soda, but no worries)
ph 7.2
salt 4400 ppm (overcalculated when I added it for the SWG; no worries)
calcium - doesn't matter - vinyl pool with titanium core heater

[mas985]

Ok, I think I am convinced. I will try a CYA level closer to 60 ppm. It will be interesting to see how much the CL level rises with a CYA rise.