Vinyl liner stain, above waterline

[ckelly]

New to this, and to pools, but been lurking for about a year here. Anyway, I have a 2 year old 24' AG, 52", pool that has developed a dark brown "scum" ring just above the water line. It's almost sticky in some spots, and can be scrapped off with a fingernail to some degree. No pool store chemicals seem to touch it. It is mostly only on the sunny side of the pool (NE), the other side is nearly perfect.

The ring was lower earlier on with a lower water level, raising the water level made the ring disappear within a few days, now the ring is higher than the water level can be raised so I can't cheat and raise the level. The ring was appearing last year as well, and was more evident once it was drained for the winter. It's much darker and more widespread this year.

The pool didn't test for metals last fall, but I do have some blonde (green) girls that inhabit it most of the summer. I've been very careful not to buy anything with copper in it. The PH was low (6.8 or so), and the chlorine was low (.5-1) for a month or so this year, I won't get into the embarassing details. CYA is 42 by the way, and the pool is and always has been shocked every 2 weeks, if that matters.

I have a 24" sand filter, Hayward heater, Rainbow 120 feeder with 3" trichlor pucks. I use a fair amount of PH up to counteract the low PH of the pucks. Recently had "disappearing chlorine" due to an algae problem that was cleared up with the correct chlorine level, heavy lithium shock, and a bottle of 60% polyquat.
Water is now balanced, clear, and no signs of any other problems.

Any ideas on what this is, how to treat, and how to prevent?

Thank you for your help,
Clay

[mbar]

There are some posters on the board that said they used the "Magic Eraser" I think it is by Mr. Clean. They have used it on their vinyl liner pools and said it works like "magic" Since the line goes away when raising the water level, I doubt the stain is from metals. I would try the magic eraser, you can find it at any grocery store. Let us know how it works.

[MaryLee]

There are some posters on the board that said they used the "Magic Eraser" I think it is by Mr. Clean. They have used it on their vinyl liner pools and said it works like "magic" Since the line goes away when raising the water level, I doubt the stain is from metals. I would try the magic eraser, you can find it at any grocery store. Let us know how it works.

Yes!!! I just removed the same scumline stain with little "elbow-grease" using the Magic Eraser! Try it...it works!!

[ckelly]

So do you think this is just "scum" from body oils, dirt in the air, etc. that is being baked on in the constant sunlit areas? Or do I need to be more concerned about metals since I also have green haired blondes?

Any way to remove the metals that may be there, ie. copper, as to not cause the green hair syndrome? I've read some about the sequestering agents, but not sure what exactly has to be done and what the timing/order is. Is this a one time treatment, then followed be something else to remove the "bonded" metals, or do you try to keep them in suspension by continuing to add the sequestering agent on a continual basis?

I'll try the magic eraser and report back with the results.

I appreciate all the info!!

Clay

[Rangeball]

In the past we had a water supply issue right after I topped my pool off on opening. I shocked, pool turned brown.

Ran to pool store, they said water plant had a problem and loads of iron in the water. Gave me some things called Ferr-tabs (sp?). Said to put them in the skimmer, leave the pump running and they would cause metal to bond together and fall out of solution and gather in front of my return the next day.

Lo and behold they worked just as advertised. Issue resolved.

A few years ago I was using a copper algaecide, got the blonde hair green result, replaced a bunch of water and quit using the algaecide. Half way through the next year I found this place and started using bleach, and bought some Clorox Ultra, the new stuff with the added chemical that apparantly is some sort of metal sequesterant. The next day I had small piles of brown stuff in front of my return. Looked exactly like when I used ferr-tabs, but smaller quantities.

Do everything you can to get the metal out, don't add any and the green hair will go stop. Well, once you get it back to blonde, anyway

[mbar]

If you are using a copper algecide, or some trichlor pucks now have copper in them, or some time of mineral system, then you should use a sequestering agent. You can take your ph down to 7.2, add enough sequestering agent according to the directions on the bottle (more is better than not enough) and then after a few days raise the ph back to normal. You can tell if it is metal by rubbing a couple of crushed vitamin C tablets in a sock on the stain. If it comes off it is metal, if it doesn't it is organic. If you use any type of copper in your water, then you will have to add sequestering agent on a maintainence plan. You cannot remove metal from the water, unless you wanted to go through a very complicated method. You can however keep your pool fine by keep the metals in suspension.

[ckelly]

Well, I tried the magic eraser. Not much luck, with A LOT of scrubbing, some of it came off, as did some of the liner print

I also tried the vitamin c, without the sock, but just crushed some tables and sorta rubbed it on the stain, didn't seem to do anything either.

Any more ideas? Can I use some form of cleaning agent or perhaps even a diluted muratic acid to disolve or loosen the organic stain? Not sure how the acid will treat the liner, but I know it works great in plumbing, cleaning showers, etc. without harming plastic. I tried simple green too, no luck.

Is the sequestering agent a pool store product, or is there some other sources for it? What kind of maintenance program do I need to follow with it. As if I can't detect the suspended copper, how do I know when to treat again?

Thanks so much,
Clay

[mbar]

Too bad that niether worked. I f the vitamin C didn't work, then I am thinking it is an organic stain. I don't know about the diluted acid on a vinyl liner. I don't have a vinyl liner pool. Have you tried some diluted bleach? Maybe spraying some on the stain, then using a small scrub brush would work ,it should if it is organic. If when the level of the water was raised, it took off the ring, then I would think bleach would work. I know that there are pool cleaners that break down enzymes, like body oils and such, but I have not used them either. Maybe some others can say what they use.

As for the sequestering agent - you can buy it at any pool store. The directions are on the back, and it tells you what you need for a maintanence dose. You will be able to tell if you are using enough when you have no more "green hair". I would also read the trichclor puck container and see if they are the source of copper. Last year when I was buying them, I had a heck of a time finding the pucks without the copper - it seems a lot of companies put copper in them to act as an algacide., Too bad it only causes problems.

[tundraSQ]

I am using "shaklee's" "liquid at ease" cleaner right now and it seems to be working...active ingredient...calcium carbonate....