Are These Contract Clauses Reasonable??

[GTakacs]

My builder was really reasonable. They even had a contract checklist for people who don't read the contract just sign with the major points outlined black and white and they went over every single item on it.

The only piece on my contract that I made them chage was that they said that all of their workers are insured but it said nothing about their subs. It said that if they screw something up due to negligence such as hitting the brick wall or fence with a truck they will fix it. I made them add that they also only hire subs that are also insured. I also made them add a clause that they will provide me with a lien waiver at the end of the construction AKA "all subs have been paid in full".

The contract clearly stated that they are not liable for re-routing utilities, ruining landscaping, irrigation system or other damage that is generally associated with the construction. They also weren't liable for driveway cracks so I paid extra for a Bobcat shuttle service so the dump trucks would not drive onto my driveway. The excavators were super careful yet they still managed to crack one corner (about 3'x3' piece) of my driveway with the track backhoe. I'm glad that is all the damage I've had. Overall I think they were very professional.

The only clause in my contract that was added to protect my builder from suprise expense was for a rock clause. It simply outlined that if they hit rock and they have to mount the ram on the backhoe it would be charged as a $600 setup charge plus $250/hr additional charge. My builder capped it at $2000 as worst case scenario. I ended up paying $1600 for the rock 'cause there was plenty where I live.

Other than these, there was one more stipulation relating to the excavation. I had to tell them at excavation time how much dirt I wanted them to leave behind for final grade. If I screwed up and left too little it would cost me extra to have more dirt hauled in. If I left too much it would be my responsibility to haul it away later.

There was a standard clause in there about sending home subs after they showed up on any given day, it would cost $200/incident.

I think that is pretty much all that was in my contract. As you can see most of it was related to the excavation step (it's not the plaster guys who'll crack your driveway). Once passed excavation I was relieved and everything went really smooth.

I also made them add something along the lines of "average build time is 40 days from dig date not including rain delays" just to be sure it gets done. The contract gave them 6 months to finish the pool. They finished in 38 days after dig so they were right on the money.

I can have my contract scanned and posted for you later today if you're still interested.

[webfeet]

Gtakacs, I appreciate the 2 replies. The Polaris and SWG are installed prices- are they still too high? I am not interested inthe Polaris just the SWG. I will probably have some more questions. Yes, I would love to see some real contracts, but I don't want to be nosey. Thanks again. Webfeet

[waste]

Web, got your pm, welcome to the forum, good idea looking into things before signing the contract, even better idea comming here to learn how to do your pool properly! With that said, I've never been involved with the contract end of pools (other than providing the labor to fulfill my boss' end ) What I remember from the few contracts I've seen is the 'act of God' clause, which covers the contractor from war, pestilence, earthquake, flood, nuclear holocost and Biblical type stuff (ie, if it's completely out of his control, it ain't his fault your pool is messed up or isn't completed on time). The schedal of payments (cuts) is also a biggie and often effects the speed of the job completion (a couple of places I've worked went down the list of current jobs and worked as much as would get them the next 'cut' and then moved on to the next job on the list ... the place I'm with now tries to install the pool and get all but the final payment within a week - we throw ourselves at one job and get from dig to the owners able to swim in 3 -4 days). I think that GT's answer pretty much covers your ?, you can write in any clauses you want to and then haggle with the contractor which of your and his clauses will be deleted or ammended.

[webfeet]

Thanks for the response, Waste. What are reasonable cuts at what points during the construction? PC wants 10% upfront and 55 % when excavation starts, 30% when deck is formed and rest upon completion. He does not take credit cards, but has been in business years. I haven't contacted his customers from last year or 4-5 years back. But would if I decide to try him. Did you get a chance to read my thread describing the pool specs and size and system, etc.? Please do, and respond when you can. Thanks again, I know I am at the right place to get the right advice.
Webfeet

[waste]

Thanks for the response, Waste. What are reasonable cuts at what points during the construction? PC wants 10% upfront and 55 % when excavation starts, 30% when deck is formed and rest upon completion. He does not take credit cards, but has been in business years. I haven't contacted his customers from last year or 4-5 years back. But would if I decide to try him. Did you get a chance to read my thread describing the pool specs and size and system, etc.? Please do, and respond when you can. Thanks again, I know I am at the right place to get the right advice.
Webfeet

Those cuts sound a little unballanced. I'm not the one who decides (nor signs the contract ) but I think our cuts (no idea on % per cut) go :
1 Excavation
2 Walls bolted together (assembled)
3 Collar (concrete footing for the pannels) poured (this includes the plumbing being attached to the pool, as we bury the pipes in the concrete to protect them)
4 Floor vermiculited
5 Liner dropped (installed and pool filled)
*** There may be one for applying faceplates and plumbing the filter system, and getting the pool 'swimable', with filter running (even if the electricianns haven't run the power to the system, we'll run the pump on a temp line to get them swimming) ***
# There is probably one for backfilling the pool with dirt because we don't do the deck nor fence (those are not included in our contract, but we will strongly recomend the dudes we usually work with)
The final cut, as I understand it, is when the deck (which, as I said- we are not responsible for) is in place (the reason for this is because 2 -5 days before the deck is laid, we, finally, plumb in the stair returns, if you really want to know why we wait til the deck is immanent to plumb the stairs, I'll answer).
Again, it looks like your contract is biased towards the contractor, as I said before, you can make ammedments to it. Paying for the work done to date seems to me a better way (if he doesn't show up for 6 weeks, you've only paid the % of the work he's done) More cuts= a quicker job and more attention paid to your pool. Of course there has to be some $$ laid down on your part before any of this even starts, but try to get that 55% spread out a little - get to a 'swimmable pool' before you put down more than 75 - 80 % of the total. Just my $.02 (and please don't tell him who I am, he'll kill me for suggesting this ) - I've seen the other post, but am trying to decide if I can further it - Waste

[Simmons99]

You wanted me to take a look at your posting on the contract issues.

Are there any other pool contractors in your area other than those two? The reason I ask - is because when we started looking at pool builders we found six that were either recommended by someone or had a good reputation. Then we called all of them - only four returned our calls.

We set-up appoinmentments with each of them and then told them what we wanted in a pool and waited to see what each of them recommeneded and why. We were able to guage the ability of each builder at this point. Then we got prices - it was very clear at this point that two of the remaining builders did not want to install our pool - one was about $20K higher than everyone else and the other didn't want to quote "custom" items - just wanted to do "standard" pools.

Now we were down to two - one was priced at 48K and the other at 52K for the same scope of work - then we started looking at the contracts. Here are some "red" flags we found that you should avoid.

1. Do not put more than 10% down for them to start pulling permits. Our pool builder actually only required 10% of the pool price (without all the extras) to pull the permit.
2. Also, you shouldn't pay them completely before they are complete to your satisfaction. One of the builders had the last payment of 10% due before start-up. This was unacceptable. The builder we chose has the last 10% upon final acceptance, and we don't pay for the pavers or the screen enclosure at all until we are happy with those items.
3. Beware of contractors that want progressive payments PRIOR to performing the work. The contract should say 20% AFTER the dig is complete (not just BEFORE).
4. My contract is standard with the "does not cover damage to sidewalks, bushes, irrigation systems, etc."

[webfeet]

I am learning soo much- Thanks to all who have responded and I am so impressed with this information- its a gold mine. I didn't know how to go about getting bids, and was really unsure of the specific things that I want due so many unknowns. But this forum has supplied value insight!

[KurtV]

Web,
Here's a prior thread on payment schedules: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=621
Good luck.