Experts, I Need Help w/ First Pool Purchase

[CarlD]

I'm with Poconos on this--get the SuperPump, but get the 2 speed. You'll LOVE a 2 speed.

I have the 1hp 2 speed Superpump with a 200# T210 filter and it's FINE. The 300# will work even better--no chance of over-pumping your filter.

The two speed is INCREDIBLY quiet in low--as Poconos-- he's seen /heard mine. So has Watermom, my fellow moderators.

[hoffmans]

CarlD- or Poconos-

Could you please explain why a 2speed pump is better than a one speed?
What are the advantages?
And what does head size mean?

Webfeet, not trying to highjack your thread, but we might in the same boat here, I don't know anything about pumps/head/speeds ect. either. And we are looking at getting a very similiar pool to yours.

Thanks
~Hoffmans

[webfeet]

Hi everyone and to the Hoffmans- don't worry. We are all trying to learn! I am not ordering a pool kit. We are not diyer's on project like this! However, we do intend to install a SWG ourselves and built our own waterfall. I want my pool water to turn over every 8 hours or so and I want an energy efficient pump. However, the size of the plumbing affects the flow. I believe that a larger horsepower pump with a high GPM ( gallons per minute) flow rate is only effective with the correct size plumbing lines. I understand that my builder uses 1 1 1/2 lines, and the GPM for these are about 44. So even if my pump will push 65 gpms, it can only do it through pipe that can handle it. I am going to talk to my builder about 2 inch lines. I have not found a 2 speed superpump, but I am still looking. Once I choose the correct pump and size pipe then I need to make sure that I have a filter that is over-sized a little. Good luck and keep us posted on pool progress. Thanks to everyone who continues to give input. Webfeet

[webfeet]

Moderators and experts- what do you think about the info on the page below?
http://www.poolplaza.com/two-speed-pumps.shtml

I tried to fix the link. If it still doesn't work, just go the home page (www.poolplaza.com) and you can choose the link directly below where it states Pumps-One Speed or Two Speed, What's the difference?

Is it correct? I also found the 2 speed super pump at this same site. Thanks, Webfeet

[CarlD]

There are two big advantages to 2-spd pumps.

1) They are INCREDIBLY quiet at low speed.

2) It will take 50% to 100% longer to turn over your water at low speed, but will burn 1/3 the electricity doing so.

A third advantage I have noticed is that my sand filter, even though it's sized correctly for full speed, STILL cleans the water better at low speed. I guess there's more time and less water pressure allowing the sand to catch more.

Sorry, but I can't do the feet of head calculations--others are better equipped to do that. Couldn't get your link to work, either. Hayward SuperPump is only one brand and model. There are others just as good, maybe even better, but I've been very happy with mine.

[mas985]

Moderators and experts- what do you think about the info on the page below?
http://www.poolplaza.com/two-speed-pumps.shtml

I tried to fix the link. If it still doesn't work, just go the home page (www.poolplaza.com) and you can choose the link directly below where it states Pumps-One Speed or Two Speed, What's the difference?

Is it correct? I also found the 2 speed super pump at this same site. Thanks, Webfeet

The poolplaza site is a good place to learn about pumps and hydraulics. From the diagram they have on that page you will notice that on low speed, The head is 1/4 and the GPM is about 1/2 of that on high speed (GPM is proportional to RPM) so your turnover is twice as long. Although it is true that the energy draw is about 1/3 of high speed, since you have to run it twice as long, the cost savings is really only about 33% (2/3). However, over the life of the pump, this is quite significant.

Since your pool has not been built yet, a head calc is somewhat difficult. You will need a detailed plumbing diagram with all of the bends. However, given that most pools are between 45-65 feet of head, this swag should get you close enough when determining turnover.

If you decide to go with 1 1/2" pipes, then make sure they run lines from each return, skimmer and main drain all the way to the pad. This will minimize the head loss and reduce the time for a turnover. In terms of head loss, here are a few rules of thumb:

2 - 1 1/2" pipes is about the same head loss as 1 - 2" pipe.
3 - 1 1/2" pipes is a little more head loss than 1 - 2 1/2 " pipe

An alternative but less attractive plumbing option is to go with a single 2" line for the returns and a single 2 1/2" line for the skimmers and main drain (split at the pool). Even better yet is to use 2" lines from each return, skimmer and drain back to the pad.

The plumbing design of a swimming pool has one the largest impacts on the life cost of the pool so it is very important to get it right.

[EDIT]

One more thing:

Although I am sure the Superpump is a great pump, I would encourage you to compare pump head curves between the pumps. For example, the 1 HP uprated Superpump has a 50 GPM at 50 feet of head while a 1 HP uprated Northstar has 70 GPM at the same head. This is an increase of 40% which means 40% less run time and 40% energy savings on top of that from the 2 speed, assuming the same current draw. Also, the Super II is not far behind the Northstar at 67 GPM for 50 feet of head. The Superpump is a medium head pump while the Northstar and Super II are high head pumps which is more appropriate for your pool.

[webfeet]

Thanks Carl and Mark and everyone else. I am leaning toward a 2 sp 1 1/2 hp- will make all the comparsions recommended by you guys. I want the 2" pipe, but the builder wants a minimum of $2000.00 to go from 1 1/2" to the 2" ( this does not include the upgraded pump and filter: $600-$700 more). The charge for the pipe seems way to high. Are 2" pipe and fittings that much more expensive? My pool will be a grecian style (8 sides) 40'6" x 20'6". I will have 2 skimmers, 2 returns and a cozy cover semicircle spa (built into the wall, but still uses the pool water). The spa has 6 jets.
One other thing, 2 returns do not seem like enough? Are they? Thanks Web

[Poconos]

The only question I can answer is the price of the pipe.....WOW. $2K? I'm guessing as I don't keep those detailed records but maybe $3 more per 10' going from 1.5 to 2" pipe? Yes, 2" PVC is a little more expensive then 1.5 but just a little unless you're going copper. There is a bigger percentage difference when you talk ball valves. Just go to a Home Depot and check the plumbing aisle.
Al

[mas985]

$2k is way too much. After checking HD, go over the prices with the builder and see if there is not some mistake.

Also, you say you are leaning toward a 1 1/2 HP pump. Is that an uprated or full rated pump?

I guess I missed the spa before but a 1 1/2 HP uprated pump may not be enough for the spa if you are using a single pump or are you going with a separate pump? Each jet should have about 15 GPM to provide enough action. That is 90 GPM and if you figure on 60 feet of head for the spa, a 1 1/2 HP full rated Super II pump would only provided 12 GPM at best. Modest jet action. Hopefully, the builder will be using at least 2" piping for the spa.

So if you are going with a single pump, a 2 HP full rated 2 speed may be a better option but you should go with at least 2" plumbing. Otherwise a two pump solution may be better so you can get a low HP for the pool (3/4 HP) and a higher HP for the spa jets.