My neighbors do not believe me on Chlorine

[smallpooldad]

I need a a whole bunch of replys to convince my neigbour that the following is not true.

Their potential new pool person told them that if you pour chlorine into one spot it will only work on that area of the pool. That it will have no effect on the rest of the pool. They have a fast moving pool sweep that disturbs the water. BUT if you use pucks it broadcasts it over the entire pool, even if it got stuck at one end of the pool.

I informed them that it is better to pour chlorine around the edges after nightfall but now they are convinced by Mr. Pool that it will stay stuck by the walls and better to use pucks.

Assuming 2 pucks each in the floating pucks how many floating pucks would it take to maintain a pool at 6ppm in a 20,000 gal gunite pool if it lost 2 ppm per day? How much Cyanuric Acid in ppm would this add monthly?

I am trying to help them understand why liquid chlorine is better.

Mr. Pool also said he had never heard of Wal-Mart's Liquid Bleach and would have to INVESTIGATE it!

He further stated that one hardly ever has to add Baking Soda. Which I add every third day to the same water supply in my pool to raise it 15ppm.

The pool readings before and after I cleaned it out for them;

Cl = 0.5/6.0
pH= 7.4/7.4
Alk=40/100
Calcium=250/250
Cyanuric Acid 140/55

Please help so I can print out the replies to help them realize what is true and what is not.

[CToon]

Dear Neighbor ,

We are only trying to help you. The free advice you are getting is so much better . Bleach is nothing more than sodium hypochlorite at 6% . Liquid chlorine sold at pool stores is sodium hypochlorite at 12% . As you can see , the only difference is the strength and price.

As for the advice that using pucks is a better solution, I have to believe your pool guy is too lazy to use anything else. THe reason I say this is even if you /he didnt want to use bleach, there are other means of chlorinating a pool. He just wants to put some pucks in and walk away All to your detriment.
AS the pucks disolve and deposit more and more CYA into your pool , the problems will increase.

Please reconsider your decision. Read Poolsolutions.com and Poolforum.com
If after reading and hearing about bleach , baking soda ,and borax you still decide to take the pool guys advice , good luck .


ok smallpooldad ?

[smallpooldad]

Thank you for the reply.

Others please help.

Looking forward to more replies.

[joliecharlie]

as my husband asks me ever so sweetly "Did they ask for your help?"

Sometimes people don't want help they just ask questions that they are satisfied that they know the answers already. When your pool looks great and theirs looks bad, they might really want help. Right now it sounds like they just want to debate.

[sevver]

That is probably good advice, when you spend in one season what they spend in one week upkeep on there pool, only to have it exponentially spiral out of control, they will come to you for advice, that is when you give it to them, take control of them and advise them every step of the way to a full recovery. They will listen then.

[smallpooldad]

Well actually yes they did ask for help. Turning their pool from the brown/yellow metal stained 20,000 gallon sink hole to what now, after the ascorbic acid and algae control treatments over a period of three weeks of twice daily treatments by me, looks like a brand new 16 year old gunite pool.

Now they interviewed one pool person and because this is not my trade just my hobby they are convinced he has all the answers. To quote, "Who should know more you or he that does this every day for a living?"

[sevver]

Tell them you are the best that they will ever see and walk away. As long as your pool remains clear that thought will echo in there ears and get reinforced by your results. Eventually they will believe it.

[aquarium]

You can lead a horse to water...

[waste]

Buy them a pair of frogs or turtles and tell them that at least they can use their pool to propogate a species if they're going to go with the pool dude. Why don't you just direct them here to see for themselves what, why and how it works? You should hold some credibility with them, so it won't be a major stretch for them. You can also tell them that I do do this for a living, so now there are 2 experts and I agree with you, the 'amature' that gave them back a 'brand new' pool. - contact me if you need to - Waste

[chem geek]

Using the numbers you provided, one 3" Tri-Chlor tablet will add 2.03 ppm of chlorine (FC) and 1.66 ppm of Cyanuric Acid (CYA) to the pool. If the pool lost 2 ppm per day, then you pretty much have to add about one puck every day and that means adding 1.66 ppm CYA per day on average. That's 50 ppm per month! Assuming that the chlorine is getting "used up" by breakdown from sunlight or oxidizing ammonia or organics, then each tablet causes a drop in pH of 0.11 and requires 13.1 ounces (weight) of Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) or 5.4 ounces (weight) of Caustic Soda (Sodium Hydroxide). I don't how much Borax would be required as I have not yet put that into my spreadsheet (found on the "Pool Water Chemistry forum in The China Shop forum, but beware -- it's not for the faint of heart).

Of course, some CYA is lost with splash-out (not with evaporation) and with backwashing the filter (assuming its sand or DE -- cartridge filters don't get backwashed).

But rather than just have theoretical calculations, let me tell you what happened to me when I first started with my pool 3 years ago. I was told by my pool shop to use Tri-Chlor tablets for the convenience (I was going to maintain the pool myself). I did this for one and a half seasons (about 7 months in a season) and found I could no longer maintain chlorine levels properly. My CYA had gone over 100 yet unlike your situation I was only losing chlorine at the rate of around 0.5 ppm per day (our pool has an electric pool cover which prevents a lot of loss). I was going through around one puck every 5 days in a 16,000 gallon pool. That's part of the reason I explored the chemistry of pool water and found out what all you guys on the poolforum already know -- too much CYA is a bad thing and liquid chlorine (bleach or otherwise) is simple, easy and inexpensive.

At any rate, the information about chlorine from different sources "sticking" or "staying" in one area of the pool is completely bogus. With decent circulation, the chlorine should spread around the pool fairly quickly, but to be safe you can always pour it around. The chlorine in the deep end will go through the floor drain and skimmer and come out in the shallow end where some jets are located. In fact, why don't you "prove" this to your friend by doing the following:

1. Test the free chlorine (FC) level at the shallow end.
2. Add a good chunk of liquid chlorine (or bleach) to the deep end of the pool (into the outward stream of a jet, if one is available).
3. Wait, say, one hour and remeasure the chlorine level in the shallow end of the pool.

I've never actually done this so be prepared to eat crow, but I suspect that at least half of the expected increase in chlorine level will be achieved in that hour. In fact, if you do this experiment, please report back to this forum so we can get some real-world experience on the circulation and dissipation of chlorine.

Richard