Chlorine obsolete?

[dawndenise]

Remember that this study was related to swimmers who "regularly swam in INDOOR pools."

[DavidD]

Dr Andrew Weil goes on to say “I use a silver-copper ion generator in my own pool that works very well. Other alternatives are available and worth exploring."

Smerk, my “take” is this guy is an idiot. I mean for a doctor to make the statement that insinuates a silver-copper ion generator could possibly properly sanitize a public, indoor pool effectively shows what kind of intellectual he really is. How healthy is Copper? The Alternatives? I understand the concerns about what should have been stated Poorly Ventilated Indoor Public Swimming Pools and how it can lead to respiratory problems and/or irritate problems already present. Makes perfect sense. Ben "Pool Doc" recently commented on this same subject here http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...?t=3920&page=2. This bozo’s claims still do not alarm me in the slightest since all of the real facts indicate Chlorine is still by far the safest way to sanitize my pool. Why blame chlorine? Being in the "Building" industry, I blame the Architect, HVAC Engineer and the facility's owner for inadequate ventilation.

Dave

[ChuckD]

And having been trained as an architect and worked in the building industry I usually blame 1) the engineer and 2) the builder.

But seriously, I think you're being too harsh on Weil. I've read a lot of his stuff and I think he has something valuable to offer for those of us who understand the incestuous relationship between the medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry.

True enough, he's an idealist. And for the same reasons I take Consumer Reports' reviews of bicycles and stereo equipment with large doses of salt, so do I take Weil's opinion on safely keeping pools clean. Some topics require a specialist to adequately review.

But ease up on him, eh? He's most certainly got something valuable to offer on the subject of health.

C.

[waterbear]

And having been trained as an architect and worked in the building industry I usually blame 1) the engineer and 2) the builder.

But seriously, I think you're being too harsh on Weil. I've read a lot of his stuff and I think he has something valuable to offer for those of us who understand the incestuous relationship between the medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry.

True enough, he's an idealist. And for the same reasons I take Consumer Reports' reviews of bicycles and stereo equipment with large doses of salt, so do I take Weil's opinion on safely keeping pools clean. Some topics require a specialist to adequately review.

But ease up on him, eh? He's most certainly got something valuable to offer on the subject of health.

C.

Well, the government of Australia certainly disagrees with him. Last year they passed legislation requirine ALL copper/silver systems to be used with NORMAL and not reduced chlorination levels in light of new research on kill times of water borne illness producing organisms! If only our own EPA was so diligent!

[DavidD]

But seriously, I think you're being too harsh on Weil. I've read a lot of his stuff and I think he has something valuable to offer for those of us who understand the incestuous relationship between the medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry....

Chuck,

That's kind of my point. Dr. Weil seams to have some good advice to offer and some very realistic views yet for him to make such an asinine blanket statement such as this truly seams idiotic. Surely you agree or you wouldn't be using chlorine yourself. I don't necessarily agree with all of his opinions, however I haven't seen any other blatantly ignorant (once again, meant as Webster's defines) remarks in the little bit of scanning of his website that I've done. Maybe there are others though and I just didn't dig deep enough. Hopefully, being a M.D., Dr. Weil realizes the proven fact that there must be some sort of residual sanitation in a public swimming pool, indoors or out. I agree with his concerns over the dangers he presented however I feel his concerns should have been directed more towards the ventilation and or the cleanliness of the water in these public facilities. Seems to me that If they actually had a higher residual FC, there very well might have been less of a problem, but hey, I'm no doctor. It is yet another case of "The sky is falling" syndrome or "lets cut off our nose to spite our face." The man seams like an intelligent enough individual who hopefully had a momentary lapse of judgment. Like Dr. Weil, I would love to find a sanitizer that is "healthier" than chlorine. The fact is, there just isn't any such thing when all of the real world facts are considered.
Now as far as an Architect blaming someone else, well that seems about right!

Dave

[day1]

I think swimming in 2-5ppm chlorine is much safer than not. I also think Weil means well, he's just such a naturalist it doesn't surprise me at all that he's against the 'evils' of chlorine. Now if your swimming in a shocked pool w/ppm up in the double-digits, it may cause some folks problems. I'd be interested in knowing to what extent we get absorption thru our skin for 1 hr/2 hrs. etc. at certain concentrations. Probably very small #'s.

[bradjo]

Speaking of training Dr. Weil's field of expertise is in Integrative Medicine with some secondary knowledge of community health (which doesn't really cover water treatment more than passing mention).

So I really wouldn't give his opinion about pools any more weight than I'd give anyone else's with a good college education who did some research while putting in their own pool.

If I were looking for definitive water treatment information I'd look for a publication by a Ph.D. in Environmental Engineering with a subspecialty in Water. Those are hard to find so I have to listen to you guys!! LOL
Jo

[chem geek]

The specific irritant that caused the problem, according to the article, was trichloramine (NCl3) which is the smelliest of the chloramines. The chloramine that is put into drinking water for disinfection is monochloramine (NH2Cl) and has much less of an odor and is much less hazardous. These chloramines collectively are what are measured as "Combined Chlorine" in your chlorine test kit (along with chlorinated organics) so these indoor pools were not regularly maintaining their pools properly and they probably had poor air circulation as well.

My guess is that they let the chlorine levels get too low relative to bather demand (i.e. they didn't keep the chlorine to ammonia ratio high). Also, for indoor pools it would be good to use a non-chlorine shock (monopersulfate, peroxymonopersulfate or MPS -- Dow trade name Oxone) to oxidize organics and ammonia before chlorine has a chance to produce chloramines. At least that's the theory. From what I've been told, indoor pools are a bear anyway you look at it.

Richard