First time PS234 results...

[alexnco]

Just completed my first test with Ben's excellent kit.

Pool is a one-year-old vinyl AG, full of 23.5K gal. of naturally acidic well-water, sitting in the hot Oklahoma summer sunshine.

For last six weeks, I've been adding 1 qt. of 6.25% liquid "bleach" every night after sunset, except on Friday nights when I'd shock with two lbs of lithium hypochlorite and (to use it up) 1 lb of non-chlorine "Wipe-Out".
I have also been adding borax and sodium bicarbonate (abt. 1 lb of each every 5 days, give or take) to raise pH and Alk as I felt needed.
Lastly, every Saturday morning after sunup, I've added 3.4 oz of 40% Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride. (I know, I know, get a poly-quat instead.)

No much rain this year. I run the pump on 1/2 hp for no less than 6 and no more than 14 hours every day. (Still on a manual switch )

So far this year, I've had very clean water and no signs of any algae. Only some oarsmen or backswimmers. Not sure which, but the kids net them out and the poulation is not uncontrollable.

I also feel pretty certain that the mineral and metal content of our water is what keeps the pH from raising much for long.

I'm considering a chlorinator of some sort, but I'm not convinced that I can successfully explain to our financial officer (and wife) that spending almost two grand total for a good SWC is a good investment. (Yes, I've read the posts re. SWC on AG pools: But I'm not convinced the salt would corrode our pool any more than our acidic and semi-burried poolwalls.)

Are there other, less expensive methods or systems that work automatically (so we can take a vacation away from home once in a while?)

Here are the test results from this morning before I added the weekly algaecide dose...

FC=1 (although it may be lower)
CC=0
TC=1
pH=6.8 (Double-checked with a calibrated Hanna pHep pocket pH meter.)
Alk=100
Cal=80
Cya=0
Temp=82.5 (We topped it off last night. Normally it is about 90 degrees.)

TIA for your feedback!

[duraleigh]

Your precision and accuracy are impressive.

I do not understand why you are running with no CYA which basically wipes out your sanitizer on a daily basis. I'm not sure I understand the need for an algaecide other than polyquat (which you could do without if you'd use chlorine and stabilizer).

I am equally puzzled by your purposeful low pH and Alk. Again, it's quite obvious you have managed your water carefully but I don't understand the numbers you have targeted.

[alexnco]

I'm an engineer by schooling, and enjoyed chemistry at one time. My beermaking and saltwater aquarium hobbies requires certain tools, let's call them "toys", that can also be useful for larger bodies of water. But "Purposeful low pH and Alk"? Ha! Double Ha! ...
Other than kicking up the Cl level every night, "shocking" every week and keeping some residual agaecide, I'm not sure I know what to shoot for!! I haven't figured out how much Borax to add, for instance, to raise pH a certain number of points. BleachCal262 doesn't perform pH calculations based on added Borax. (I tried asking the author, but his email address bounced.) The program suggests attaining 50 ppm of Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate, not for pH control, but for use as an algacide. Why 50 ppm? I also haven't yet received the instructions with the test kit (whether they cover these questions or not, I don't know), so I'm not sure what to do.

I don't yet use CYA because of what I originally read in the PoolSolutions' site, and until I got Ben's kit I had no comfortable way of testing for it. Since I was adding some Cl on a nightly basis, what I'd lose to daytime UV radiation didn't bother me. How much of my Cl will adding CYA keep me from losing during daytime, at my low levels?

And abt. PolyQuat, well I have almost 2 quarts of Algaecide left, it appears to work much better than the copper-based chemical junk my pool dealer originally sold us and I haven't found a reasonably priced source of Poly, yet. Any ideas on sources?

Keep in mind that our well water has certain properties that make controlling some chemistries difficult. I found this out the very hard way with my aquarium; and it also explains some brewing problems I've encountered.

BTW, I just re-read Ben's high pH article: http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/hiphpool.html I'm really interested in finding out what Ben was referring to with his comment abt. a "...method of shocking that produces greatly improved results in many cases. In conjunction with high pH pool operation..." Who do I pay for that information?

Maybe I'll get most of my questions answered there, once I can get my pH stabilized above 7.6?
We'll see. Thx for your comments!

[duraleigh]

Alex,

Have you read the stickies at the top of each forum? They will give you guideline numbers for "normal" ranges.

Try 2 lbs of Borax if you wish to raise your pH. Judge subsequent dosage from the amount your pH moves up.

The majority (probably) of folks on the forum don't use any algaecide. That's an individual choice.

Final thought....without sanitizer in your pool, algae and bacteria formation may become a real issue. Stabilizer and maintaining a higher chlorine residual will almost surely prevent that.

[brent.roberts]

stop putting expensive stuff in the hole with water that you don't need and you'll be able to afford the auto chlorinator sooner.
You should be able to do it for a lot less than 2K as well. I just put in a new AutoPilot that was about $ 1100. Easy to self install.

Basically if you get the CYA, PH and CL levels correct you don't need algecide untill you close in the fall, and don't need to shock unless you have something unusual, like a lot of little kids peeing, a deluge, a lot of leaves etc. And the new test kit will tell you that the CC levels are up and you need to shock.

A well run pool could go through a full season without a shock, except maybe when you open in the spring.

The pool stores want to tell you you need to shock so you'll buy something... anything.

[alexnco]

Thank you for your replies.

Alex in OK

[MBeardsley]

Hey Alex! Sounds like we may have used the same pool store. Yes I am from Oklahoma as well. I have been using wipe out shock as well as crystal clear shock, did you have any problems when switching to BBB method. We are a new pool owners and not by any means chemists! We want to convert and have been using cooper based algaecide as well, and just not sure if this will create any problems. Of course the pool store does not advise this, but at this point I find we are putting a lot more money into it than we should have to. Any advise or comments you have would be great! Thanks-Michelle

[aylad]

MBeardsley

Yes, copper levels in the water do create a problem--I would strongly encourage you to go to the "metals" forum, and read everything you can there, especially posts written by mbar (Marie) on how to deal with water that contains metals without staining your pool.

Janet

[mbar]

If you have been using a copper based product, you should put in a sequestering agent before you raise your chlorine levels. This will bind with the copper in the water and hold it in suspension, so that the high chlorine levels don't make it precipitate out onto the pool's surface. High chlorine along with high ph and no sequesterant will let any metal in the water precipitate.

[alexnco]

Michelle,
I used their own Pure n Blue branded "Metal Remover" (from the original kit) before I got too far into the BBB. It seems to have worked well, no rust or copper stains and my copper tests show zero. (And to be honest, after my whining, they agreed that copper seemed not to be working for my pool!)
The copper thing seemed "ok" for a while last year, but totally crashed last summer after the ambient temp. went above 92. All in all, it was pretty expensive, and still required chlorine, frequent shocking and (after all) needed additional algeacide.
Duh! I should've done a bit more homework first!
Interesting aside:
I also submitted my water to that company (1) and another one just north of them up I-35 (2) and here are the results (compare them to my "First time PS234 results"):

First time PS234:
FC<1, CC=0, TC=1, pH=6.8, Alk=100, Cal=80, Cya=0, Temp=82.5

(1):
FC=0.45, CC=??, TC=-0.1 (), pH=6.8, Cal=60, Alk=110, Cya=5, Iron=0.17 (their printer wasn't working -again- so they missed the actual CC)

(2):
FC= 0.48, CC=0.05, TC= 0.53, pH=7.12, Cal=116, Alk=133, Cya=15, Copper=0, Iron=0

Although I've never added cya or anything with cya, they both show cyanuric acid in my water!
Additionally, (1) wanted me to add muriatic acid to lower Alk and then add Cl. Why lower Alk? And (2) told me things looked pretty good, just to add Cl.

My new PS234 test results this weekend: FC= 0.5, CC=0.5, TC=1, pH=7.4, Alk=100, Cal=70, CYA=0, Salt=400, Temp=86
After the test, I added 9 lbs cya, 4 lbs borax, 120 lbs salt and will retest on Sunday.