7.2 vs >8.2 Grrrrrrrrrrr

[denanbob]

What does vac to waste mean? I've seen this several times and I'm trying to figure out what it means. Can anyone help a newbie? Thanks!

[CarlD]

What does vac to waste mean? I've seen this several times and I'm trying to figure out what it means. Can anyone help a newbie? Thanks!

Normally, when you vacuum a pool, you plug the hose into the skimmer or the low drain and the pump sucks all the junk out of the pool while you vacuum. You can either direct that dirty water through the filter and let the filter try to clean it (and if some of the dirt is too small it may not) or you can redirect the water to a drain--to waste. Some filters, like sand filters, have a valve on top that allows you to:
1) filter the water
2) simply circulate the water and bypass the filter
3) backwash the filter (force water through backwards knocking the junk loose and directing it to a drain)
4) go directly to the drain and not filter it.
5) block off the filter and pump.

There's a 6th position but I don't remember what it is.

Some filters, like cartridges, don't have a valve like this and you must either open a port on the bottom or just plan on cleaning it.

You can also vacuum to waste by syphon if you can get the hose end outside the pool lower than the pool bottom. The natural syphon acts like a vacuum and by definition vacuums to waste.

[brent.roberts]

Infidel

There really does seem to be a "break point" as some folks here call it.
With your super high CYA your break point will be way up there. Sometimes the advice given here is a bit conservative because some folks with vinyl lined pools might take the method and end up bleaching their liner. Not your problem with a concrete/plaster pool.

Vac to waste will be a good idea. Shut down for a couple hours, let it settle, set up the vac, switch to waste then start the pump and it will be most effective.

When you finish that backwash the filter, get a small bag of Diatomacious Earth (DE). Set the valve on filter and note carefully the pressure reading. Then add DE to the skimmer a cup or two at a time until you see the pressure go up 1 PSI. Keep t

he pump running like that for a couple days. The DE will help quite a bit to get the finest dead algae out. Don't inhale. Not the grass... the DE. The pool grade DE is not good in your lungs.

You should by now have seen the famous "best guess" chart for the chlorination level vs CYA levels. Take good note. You will need to keep the chlorine at pretty high levels until you get the water exchange done. Try diluting the CYA test with distilled water to see just how much above 100 you are. Keep your PH in the 7.2 - 7.3 range and the CL you do have will be more effective.

Good Work.

[Infidel]

Thanks, I lurked for a while before registering, and I usually search pretty thorougly before posting, it was the pH issue with the 2 test kits that initially had me lost.

Let the pool settle over night, not a lot settled out. I'm going to add some DE, which I've been meaning to do for a while, I've always been dissapointed in my sand filter. I need to double check my pH as well.

As for maintaining the Cl level, I'm at a loss. I can't differentiate the color very well and I've got a 5x dilution, 15-25ppm is the best resolution I can get at my levels. Is there a better test kit out there with a more definitive end point for high Cl? Is the DPD-FAS more accurate than the Taylor kit I'm using?

BTW, what can I do with the 30lbs of stabilized pellets I bought shortly before finding this site?

edit: I should add, it may seem tedious to continuously have to explain what DE is, or what vac to waste is, but there's a lot of new people not familiar with things that appreciate the information. There's nothing more annoying than a bunch of old guys on a forum that rip people's heads off for asking questions that everyone else considers common knowledge. Thanks.

[brent.roberts]

Heads don't roll on this forum. (except maybe for those of "poolstore" salespersons )

The FAS/DPD test goes like so
put an amount of pool water into a test tube
add a tiny scoop of a powered dye, it will turn the water red/pink
add a reactant a drop at a time and swirl to mix between drops
suddenly on one drop, the pink goes clear ... done
depending on the kit you use the # of drops to calculate the free chlorine, usually by dividing by 2 eg. 7 drops = 3.5 Parts Per Million ( PPM ) of free chlorine.

That's only half the story though. You need also to find you "combined chlorine" levels. Combined chlorine was at one time, free chlorine in the pool. It has partially reacted with organics in the pool ( worms, leaves, grass, insects, kids pee etc) and has partially oxodized them. This is the source of the stinky chlorine smell you will find around a lot of pools, especially commercial or public pools. It forms this intermediate step because the free chlorine levels were not quite high enough to finish the reaction. So we test for it. If we find much of it we know the job has not quite been done. The solution is, strangely enough, jack up the chlorine levels. This is called shocking. Shock is not a product, but lots of pool stores like to sell stuff that is labelled shock. Shocking is simply bringing up the free chlorine levels to finish the oxodization and eliminate combined chlorines.

So the second half of the test is to discover you Combined Chlorine (CC) level. The FAS/DPD kit has a 3 dropper bottle to do this test. Again it is a clear solution or red solution result and easy to read. If you CC is 0.5 PPM or greater, you increase your chlorine levels for a day or so ... until the CC is back below 0.5 PPM

The kit that Ben sells here has both the easy "shades of yellow/pink/red" test , (aka OTO test) that you say you have problems reading. By the way it is widely believed that women can read that color test better than men. Ben's kit is a great package. His delivery is a bit slow at times. You can also get a pool store to order an FAS/DPD kit for you.

Hope all this helps.

[brent.roberts]

About the 30 lbs of tabs. Keep them on hand. If you know the calibrations on you feeder, it will do a better job of tending the chlorine levels in you pool if you're out of town for a few days ... than most neighbours/well intended freinds. It is know a stabilized chlorine and has very long shelf life. Wrap it well and store it in a cool corner in the basement.

[Infidel]

Well, I spent several years as an analytical chemist, I've done many many titrations for alkalinity and hardness, so I understand titrations pretty well. I'd love to have a definite endpoint, rather than a subjective color comparison, being color blind doesn't help. Guess I'll start tracking down the FAS/DPD kit so I know my real Cl levels. I just spent ~$50 on the Taylor kit which I thought would be the answer to my problems.

And after all this, it still bugs me that I can get 2 very different pH readings from 2 different kits.

[waterbear]

Well, I spent several years as an analytical chemist, I've done many many titrations for alkalinity and hardness, so I understand titrations pretty well. I'd love to have a definite endpoint, rather than a subjective color comparison, being color blind doesn't help. Guess I'll start tracking down the FAS/DPD kit so I know my real Cl levels. I just spent ~$50 on the Taylor kit which I thought would be the answer to my problems.

And after all this, it still bugs me that I can get 2 very different pH readings from 2 different kits.

You must have the Taylor K-2005 which uses the DPD test with a comparator tube.. The K-2006 has the FAS-DPD titration test for chlorine. Otherwise it is identical to the K-2005 so most of the reagents are the same. Ben's PS234 is a better 'bang for the buck' in terms of number of tests vs. price!

As an alternative you COULD inve$t in a colorimeter to read the results for you. LaMotte and Hach have some good ones if you have a spare thousand lying around! Being a chemist I am sure that you understand the importance of calibration of test equipment, otherwise I would not make that suggestion.

[ChuckD]

Well, I spent several years as an analytical chemist, I've done many many titrations for alkalinity and hardness, so I understand titrations pretty well. I'd love to have a definite endpoint, rather than a subjective color comparison, being color blind doesn't help. Guess I'll start tracking down the FAS/DPD kit so I know my real Cl levels. I just spent ~$50 on the Taylor kit which I thought would be the answer to my problems.

And after all this, it still bugs me that I can get 2 very different pH readings from 2 different kits.

Well I've just got to get my US$0.02 in here, reading this thread hurts.

Dude, you've GOT to get your CYA down! This is the source of all your problems. Why waste time on questionable pH and Cl readings all because of you having to SuperDuper Chlorinate because of your CYA (which we're still not sure how high it is)? 100+ CYA is absurd!

Don't mean to offend, respect for your tenacity, but wouldn't it really be easier to drain and dilute and have at it?

C.