a pump/timer question etc

[tenax]

i am planning to put in a chlorine generator (likely aquarite). reading instructions and threads here and elsewhere, it appears it is recommended to have both the pump and the aquarite control panel on a timer. makes sense..i checked and the pump runs is 120 vac and believe the aquarite can do 120 vac as well, right? so, assuming i'm correct on that, as i was patting myself on the back thinking no problem to wire myself, i realized having my pump on a timer isn't much use given if i leave my valves open, it can take quite a while sometimes to for the pump to start getting water. so my dumb question is for people with timers..are you able to leave your valves open when the pump isn't running? now, i do have a few small small leaks in a few pipes..do you think that's enough to get air in the system over 6, 8 hours? my lid was replaced at start of last season (starite 3/4 hp pump) as it leaked. i do have a few air bubbles when the system is running in the lid..nothing major but it's not completely clear. i am going to redo the couple of pipes with small leaks when i do the SWCG install..the drops are once about every 5 seconds and very small on those pipes for reference. i was figuring there's gotta be people who don't have a perfectly air free system running a timer?

next quicker question.so, let's say i fix the pipes, still have a small leak..does it really matter if i go lo-tech and simply turn on the pump manually then the aquarite system after the pump is going? (or can you turn the aquarite on and off manually)

last question- we shut down our pool in the winter and it's quite dirty as we can't cover easily due to high winds in winter/spring.. in the spring when you start up, do you want the aquarite cartridge in the system or should a person have a length of straight pump you put in for the initial startup..and then should you go old fashion chlorine to get it pretty clear before putting the aquarite cartridge in..(depending on answer to other question) we start the pool about mid may for swimming by end of may. it takes about 2 weeks to get it going..

so many questions, yes..but once i know the answers, i won't bug you with the same one twice! thanks in advance.

[tenax]

hey folks..anyone can help me out here if you get a sec? i know..we're all busy, we've all got problems LOL..THANKS!

[waste]

Tenax, thanks for the patience- with so many threads it's easy to lose track of some that I could and should answer - bumping it today brought it to my attention. Welcome to the forum - comming here and following the advice given will save you unbelievable amounts of time, $ and frustration.
The company I work for installs 40 - 50 IG liner pools/ yr, all of them have timers, though none of them have leaks in the system. The best thing to do is fix all the leaks, the easiest thing to do is to put a check (or backflow prevention) valve immediately in front of the pump inlet [if you do this put a union on the pool side of the check valve - you'll thank me every fall when you go to close the pool - also oversize the check valve , if the pipe is 1 1/2" use a 2" valve, they reduce flow and oversizing can alieviate that quite a bit]
As for the aquarite, when we install one it has a constant power supply, the unit can not turn on without the pump running and having it powered intermittently I believe is bad for it's 'computer' (you can check with Goldline/ Hayward but sometimes getting a straight answer from them is an exercise in futility, though the tech support is quite good)
As for your last ? - I would always recommend using bleach over the 'superchlorinate' function, because the cell's life is a direct result of how long it generates - a few bottles of bleach are a lot less expensive than a new cell! (If you can find the proper 1/2 unions (the male ends), making a 'cell replacement' sounds like a very good idea for swamp [I mean Spring] clean-up. Hope this was worth the wait, if you've any more ?s - ask away and you will be answered-- Have fun with the pool!!!

[tenax]

thanks a bunch waste..hope i didn't come across impatient..just..eager to get going on this chlorine generator project..so, here's more questions and my setup if you don't mind..and thanks in advance:

-i will change all offensive pipes and plug leaks..not sure what you mean by a check valve. i have a valve on each of my main and skimmer pipes as they come into the pump.. if so, that's great if i have a timer, but i still need to open the valves or are you saying get a different kind of check valve that goes where the 2 pipes join into one before the pump inlet (y that goes into single pipe then into the pump and leave the other 2 valves open? bottom line is i'm thinking what's the point of a timer if the 2 valves are closed..why the union on the pool side? so i can open that up for winter? i am somewhat familiar with a checkvalve in that my sump pump has one in the pipe, so i assume this is something i should be able to get anywhere there is plumping supplies.

i have 1.5 inch pipe in the whole installation in my pool shed..so should i go 1.5 to 2 inch to 2 inch check valve then reduce to 1.5 inch at the pump again? (i'm assuming my pump inlet is 1.5..maybe it's 2..it's about 9 yrs old, still working fine but i can't find model info..but i've seen 1.5 inch on all my white pipes.

frankly, i'm thinking timer is nice, but do you really think there would be a problem if i simply manually turn on the pump, then turn on the chlorine generator? i'm used to manually turning my pump on and off anyway and no i won't hold you liable if it were to damage something but from your experience basically..by the way, i opted for the autopilot soft touch sc 36 system if that helps..more money than the aquarite,but seemed a bit more full featured,the replacement cells appear to be cheaper and i think i got a heck of a deal (699 including free shipping to canada for a new unit from an authorized distributor) i have verified the pump runs on 120 volt..and will run the generator on 120 as well..another question..i have the option of running off 2 separate breaker circuits..or i can wire the generator into the same circuit as the pump..2 advantages i see 2 this..in effect, as a timer would switch both on at the same time, turning the switch my pump and generator are connected to would accomplish the same trick? and the pump is wired to a gfi breaker..the other would not be if i wire generator separately. amperage capacity is not an issue.

yeah, it's a bit low tech, but if it will work ok, it's fine by me. fyi, i have the nicest pool shed in the world, in my opinion. when i bought the house,it had a rickety 4 foot tall shed with no lights..i can't believe i lived with that for 2 years. last year i built a 9 x 12 foot by 10 foot standing room shed with double 100 watt lights so i had some elbow room and brightness!..it's truly a pool equipment storeage shed that's well lit, has electric fan ventilation as i have a ngas heater and lots of room for everything..plus my golf clubs!

[waste]

Tenax, space for the golf clubs is KEY
You didn't come across as impatient, as I said - I probably wouldn't have found your post til December if you hadn't 'bumped' it - you did the right thing to bring it back 'on the radar' without *****ing.
As for the 'check valve', you've got the right idea, the valves you have can turn on or off the flow from any suction source (or allow one to suction more or less than the other(s)) but the check valve prevents water from flowing the opposite way through the pipe (either from having a spring loaded stopper or a weighted flap that stuts off the 'backwards flow' when there isn't any draw on it. On a system that is controlled by a timer which is above the pool level, it will allow you to retain your pump's prime without having to go out and manually turn the valves. The union allows you to evacuate the lines of water when winterizing (the check valve keeps the water in the lines, even when you want to empty them )
You are going with the autopilot system, so I'll refer you to Poolsean (he is IMHO the greatest resource here for SWG owners), take a look at the SWG section and post your ?. Sean keeps his eye on it and will certainly help you - especially since you've got one of his company's units - he can tell you much, much better than I FWIW: I'd keep the autopilot separate from both pump and timer ( the units are SMART and keeping the power to them 24/7 will allow them to function better. ) If you need more, just ask - all the best with your pool, Waste

[tenax]

thanks waste..well, this is great info. i have decided that i will redo most of my plumbing. the pool is 13 years old, it's never been changed and least of the expense. and i think i will consider the timer idea as well.

so, one more quick question, waste:

-so you're saying put the pump on a timer..but continuous, separate power supply to the autopilot right? they are interconnected anyway in that the autopilot won't start until the flow valve detects flow, right?

i "think" i've got it

[tenax]

ps- someone emailed me (sorry i deleted as i thought it was a post here.) to ask me where i am getting my autopilot from. i assume because it was such a great price. for 2 reasons, i think i better decline to say as:

1) the company if they follow through on plans to have a greater focus on supplying canadians and do as i think they will do for a canadian strategy, would from my research of u.s. online stores, have a first (as is typical, u.s. businesses not realizing that pools and of course..spas, are major business here as well. i mean in you're in the eastern part of u.s. especially , you're missing the ottawa valley, montreal, toronto population of say 14 million..and there are lots of pools out that way. even in my city of 78,000 in what is typically not pool country, there are 2500 pools..35,000 pools in calgary which is only a million population)

2) it was a special deal with a 10% discount on their sale price plus free shipping as a thank you for providing info on how to best sell to canadians, shipping, brokerage fees etc. basically, i worked for it..and the sales manager was kind enough to give me a great deal!

[cruzmisl]

what if that person that emailed you was a Canadian too...(hint)

[waste]

thanks waste..well, this is great info. i have decided that i will redo most of my plumbing. the pool is 13 years old, it's never been changed and least of the expense. and i think i will consider the timer idea as well.

so, one more quick question, waste:

-so you're saying put the pump on a timer..but continuous, separate power supply to the autopilot right? they are interconnected anyway in that the autopilot won't start until the flow valve detects flow, right?

i "think" i've got it

I think you've got it too! The units have a flow detector, if it doesn't sense flow the unit will not generate

One last thing I haven't mentioned to you yet. Don't store any chlorine in the shed with your clubs, they and any other metals will rust - no matter how tightly capped the bottles or tubs are some cl gas escapes and in a closed area it's rust city. Keep the cl in a plastic tote container with a lid outside in the shade. Using bleach to shock will extend the life of the cell and pucks can be used to lower pH and add cya.

[tenax]

great tips, waste..thank you!