New Pool Questions

[md_rider]

I stopped at Walmart on my way home from work tonight and bought an HTH test kit to hold me over untul I get Ben's. Also bout some bleach. baking soda and borax. I tested the Chlorine, pH, Alk, Calcium Hardness and CYA. The results? No reading on any of the tests so I am low on everything. I did add 4 more pounds of shock as per Carl's suggestion to get the Chlorine level up first. Any suggestions of what to do next? I made a mistake in my first post about what was added yesterday by the pool guys. They added 4 lbs of stabilizer (not 4 oz) and 4 oz of stain protectant. I didn't state the size before but it is a 30000 gallon gunite/plaster pool.

Dave

[SJohnson]

Make sure there was no copper in that algaecide, a little late now, but I'm crossing my fingers for you that there wasn't . . . You may need a titration test to see those high levels of chlorine, as well.

SJ

[CarlD]

No need to add calcium to a vinyl pool...ever. Unless, of course, you feel the need to be charitable to your local pool store and buy useless stuff to keep them in business.

As mentioned, a good way to add calcium is by using Cal-Hypo to chlorinate. Look for 63% or more effective Chlorine--you won't find it in HTH products anymore--they are less than 50%-- but some of the pool stores private label it. Like Sun Pools in NJ here has a private label 63% Cal-hypo.

If you can STILL find the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, GREAT! It was the VW Beetle of good test kits--$15 gets you most of the tests you need, only the chlorine test is limited to 5ppm max. But, with the CarlD ShotGlass method you can get readings to 15 or 20ppm. Simply mix a shot glass of pool water with a shot glass of steam-distilled water and you double the scale (to 10ppm). with 2 shots of distilled to 1 pool you triple it, etc. but you lose accuracy.

Unfortunately, Arch Chems seems to have decided that such a useful kit is too much information in a home-owner's hands and is now pushing "6-way" test strips. I haven't seen the 5-way in the local WalMarts in 2 years--and it was the only reason I go to Wally-world.

[duraleigh]

Hi, Dave,

Lot's of good advice above.

Also, waterbear makes a good point about TSP. I read somewhere it could be used to lower CH as well. When I posted that info, Ben made a VERY CLEAR POINT not to use TSP because algae loves it sooooo much.

Keep reading and asking questions. You're on your way!

Dave S.

[md_rider]

Carl: The kit I got was the HTH 5 way test kit. It was $12.87 at Wal-Mart. Seems like a decent kit. After adding the shock last night, I measured the chlorine level this morning and it was reading about 5ppm (just using the quick test strip method, had to get the pool brushed before heading to work).

Should I start trying to raise the pH and TA along with the chlorine? I am a little confused about the pH reading being so low. I thought the pH should rise as the plaster cures. Or is the 5 gallons of acid originally added doing its job?

Thanks everyone for your inputs. I've only had water for 5 days and you all have already been a big help.

[waterbear]

No need to add calcium to a vinyl pool...ever. Unless, of course, you feel the need to be charitable to your local pool store and buy useless stuff to keep them in business.
There might be under certain conditions such as if you have very soft water and you have a heater. (my fill water has 0ppm CH) but it's not something to lose a lot of sleep over.
As mentioned, a good way to add calcium is by using Cal-Hypo to chlorinate. Look for 63% or more effective Chlorine--you won't find it in HTH products anymore--they are less than 50%-- but some of the pool stores private label it. Like Sun Pools in NJ here has a private label 63% Cal-hypo.
Good point!
If you can STILL find the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, GREAT! It was the VW Beetle of good test kits--$15 gets you most of the tests you need, only the chlorine test is limited to 5ppm max. But, with the CarlD ShotGlass method you can get readings to 15 or 20ppm. Simply mix a shot glass of pool water with a shot glass of steam-distilled water and you double the scale (to 10ppm). with 2 shots of distilled to 1 pool you triple it, etc. but you lose accuracy.
My local walmart (N. FL.) is stocked full of them. bought one about 2 months ago just to check it out. It certainly is better than test strips but I would still recommend getting a decent kit like Ben's or Taylor's or LaMotte's. Much easier to use and read on the tests and they will also test FC which the walmart (Aquachem) won't since it is OTO based. Oh yeah, it cost me $16.95!
Unfortunately, Arch Chems seems to have decided that such a useful kit is too much information in a home-owner's hands and is now pushing "6-way" test strips. I haven't seen the 5-way in the local WalMarts in 2 years--and it was the only reason I go to Wally-world.

CarlD, I have a question about the 'shot glass method'. Is that 'shaked or stirred'? (yes, I once worked as a bartender in college)

[KurtV]

MD, I'd be hesitant to adjust calcium hardness and alkalinity as your builder may be doing a high-acid startup on your pool. Depending on the finish (pebble, plain plaster, exposed quartz, etc.) there may be specific manufacturers requirements that you can muck up (the DiamondBrite high-acid startup, for example, requires a TA of zero). You don't want to void any warranty you might have (and some contractors will use any excuse, no matter how bogus, to do just that). I recommend that you talk to your builder and or plasterer before doing much of anything with the water chemistry.

[CarlD]

Not bad advice to check with the builder so you don't violate the warranty.

However, Gunite pools should keep a calcium level of 200-400--no more or less, and a T/A of 80 or 90 to 125. You don't want to be out of that range.

If pH is low, you want it to be above 6.9...Unless there's something the builder insists on, but I'm not familiar enough with the startup chemistry of gunite/plaster pools. The calcium leeching out of the new walls raises pH. That's why Tri-Chlor tabs are great for new gunite pools--they lower pH and fight the tendency of pH to rise in the new pool. And they add CYA (stabilizer) which you need--assuming the builder didn't dump a ton of CYA in to start. If he didn't the tabs are great because they add CYA slowly, but keep a constant chlorine level in the mean time via floater or inline chlorinator. When CYA hits your target, and pH is under control, then you can rely on bleach or an SWG. If calcium is low, you'll need to add it seperately.

Cal-Hypo is good for new gunite pools if calcium is low as it will raise the calcium level. In that case, you'll need to add muriatic acid for pH and CYA to get to the right stabilizer level as necessary.

Shaken or stirred? Why that depends on what you mix it in! But use it ONLY for the Chlorine test, not the others.

If you can find a separate FAS-DPD test kit (Leslie's sometimes has them for $20) you are all set. However, while the 5-way kit is a bargain, it just still isn't as good as Ben's kit--and not just for the chlorine tests.

[KurtV]

Carl said: "However, Gunite pools should keep a calcium level of 200-400--no more or less, and a T/A of 80 or 90 to 125. You don't want to be out of that range."

Carl, At the risk of sounding like a broken record, that's not necessarily true for new pools; especially with regard to alkalinity in high-acid start-ups of exposed aggregate/quartz finishes. In those cases you want the water to eat some of the plaster (which will also increase your calcium hardness, I think).

[mwsmith2]

I have a question about the 'shot glass method'. Is that 'shaked or stirred'?

I know you are joking around, but if you shake your sample, you will reduce the Alk, because you are aerating the water and driving off CO2. It will also change your pH somewhat. Betcha didn't expect that!

Michael