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Thread: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    I can find t he Black Diamond filter information, but the description "Aqua 2.0 hp pump with ionizer" doesn't bring up anything specific unless this is it:

    https://www.thepoolfactory.com/aquap...efc-motor.html

    Is your pump a 2 speed pump? If so, you should always, ALWAYS run on 2-speed unless you have a specific need to do otherwise. You will get better filtration, better life out of your cartridge AND save substantially on electrical costs.

    Ionizers aren't really compatible with chlorination. Copper stains, but copper staining can be avoided IF there's no chlorination AND the pH is kept low-ish. Add chlorine, and let the pH go up and you get stains.

    BUT . . . many ionizers don't stain, because they don't actually work. (ie, they don't deliver any copper).

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    yes that is the pump that we have. I bought the pool from East Cost Leisure in New Port News Va. Told us that the product that we was using the latest and greatest with no chlorination. I start the year out with a Prime (Simple Salt water system) I can't tell you whats in it doesn't have a ingredient label. After I prime it I only have to shock once a week (Simple Blue) Simple salt water system Shimmer, which has calcium hypochlorite 47.6%, sodium tetraborate pentahydrate 20.0% and other ingredients 32.4%, then every 2 weeks put in (simple Blue) simple salt water system Vivid concentrated natural enzyme clarifier it doesn't have an ingredient label either. When I opened the pool this year and fill the pool with our well water more then usual (pumped a lot off of cover over winter) they told us that it was could because of the Phospates, thats when every thing went down hill. NO body there would tell you the same thing to do. I think we over dosed the pool with chemicals (just my opinion) so I decided after much research and finding you I would try doing it with your help. Don't want to depend on them NO more, So if I need to change something that I'm using I will. If I need to do away with the ionizer and use a liquid I will. So chlorine Im not use to but Im will to change if need be. I don't want stains either I have read about them. I appreciate your help!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    OK.

    I had to do some research.

    It looks like the pump and filter may be from http://ecoaquapro.com/, and your 'sanitation system' is from http://mysimplesalt.com/, which looks like a re-branded and re-labeled version of "Permasalt" copper based system, discussed here http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/16701

    Let's operate with the assumption that the pump and filter are OK. But the MySimpleSalt is NOT.

    Stains can be a problem any time copper is involved. Fortunately, the shocking and floccing process you have ALREADY gone through has probably removed most, or even all of the copper.

    Let me give you a list of steps to follow . . . and then some questions I need you to answer.

    1. Keep your pump on LOW speed, running 24/7

    2. Test your water, post the result, and TELL ME WHAT YOU USED TO TEST!

    3. Add 1/4 gallon of 10% Walmart pool bleach in the evening any evening the chlorine is below 2 ppm

    4. Take pictures of your pump, your pool, the simply salt system and the LABELS of the shipper product. I particularly need to see the EPA Est # listings. You can email them to poolforum@gmail.com, text them to (423) 300-6560, or use Imgur to post them in this thread (instructions: http://pool9.net/postpix/ )

    5. Tell me if you are on a tight budget or not. The easiest and fastest way to clean up and get things running smoothly will require you to buy some stuff now (mostly from Amazon) . . . and save later. But if your budget is tight, you can put in some extra elbow grease, take a little more risk of stains and algae, and spend less now. For example, removing phosphates WILL make things easier . . . later. But it costs $$'s now.

    6. Tell me what you know about your well water. Well water is often -- but not always -- a problem for pools. It depends on what's in the water. Do you have a softener or water treatment system? Is the pool filled via that system, or through a bypass? Does the well water have iron or manganese or sulfur in it?

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    7. Oops. One more thing -- disconnect the power cord to the 'ionizer' or 'mineral' unit.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok I will get back to you this afternoon. Have to get all this together for you. Thank you!

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok I'm back, water test I used OTO drops for chlorine 1.0-1.5, phenol red for PH with was 8. I also have a 6 way test strip kit hardness 500, chlorine low, free chlorine ideal, ph high 7.8, total alkalinity high 160, stabilizer ok 50.
    I will text you the pictures of the pool, pump and simple salt system.
    You asked about the budget, well don't want to spend and arm and leg but want to do what I need to do. Question, did I mess the pool up by mixing different chemicals? Not me but getting different pool people to test water and suggest stuff. Only asking.
    I don't have anything to test for phosphates. we have had to add water the last couple of days due to hot weather and all the vacuuming. Yes we have well water thats softened with water softener. I don't know about the manganese and sulfur, I would say a little bit of iron but I don't have iron built up in anything toilet or sink. I can by pass the softner and run straight well water. I have never had any staining with the ionizer (maybe it didn't work?).
    The pool today was the best its been blue and clear. We have vacuumed 4 times on waste.
    ok hope I have given you all the information you needed and Im gonna send the pictures now.
    I have gotten the Walmart pool chlorine and ph down and also gotten the borax. oh ionizer is unplugged!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    OK. Let's cautiously assume the test values you have are fairly close to accurate.

    1. With a CYA = 50, your chlorine needs to be higher. Start adding 1/2 gallon doses in the evening of the 10% bleach. Back off a bit once your chlorine level starts holding above 3 ppm.

    2. Your pH is too high, especially with calcium levels that may exceed 500 ppm. We'll need to lower those . . . but that's for later. Use 1/4 bottle (~1.3 lbs) doses of the dry acid or "pH down" from Walmart. Add 1 dose each evening till your pH is 7.6 or a little lower. Do NOT let the acid and bleach mix. You can add the acid to the skimmer; do NOT add the bleach to the skimmer! Best option? Get a bucket, fill it 3/4 with pool water, add the acid to the bucket, stir with a plastic stick or spoon till dissolved, then pour into the pool!

    3. Avoid filling if you can. but if you need to fill, add a dose of bleach and then begin adding water SLOWLY through the skimmer.

    4. Go ahead and order [/B] the K-2006 test kit from Amazon.

    5. Order an extra cartridge filter for your pool filter.

    6. Let's postpone looking at phosphates till later UNLESS you have, or expect, algae problems. Right now, the (possibly) high calcium level may well interfere with phosphate control efforts. We need trustworthy test results for the K2006 before taking other steps.

    7. I got pictures of everything EXCEPT the "Shimmer" label and EPA Est. numbers on that label.

    ________________________________________

    Regarding causes . . .

    It appears to me, that your current problems resulted from the overdose of calcium, followed by attempts to clean up the calcium carbonate cloud that (inevitably!) resulted. Whoever is responsible for that 50# dose of calcium chloride triggered the problem. Whoever gave you the floc, made it worse.

    . . . but I am NOT absolutely certain.

    ________________________________________

    + 10% Pool bleach (to chlorinate, without side-effects)
    + 5lb bottle of pH Down (to LOWER pH)
    + 20 Mule Team Borax (to RAISE ph, without side-effects)
    + K-2006 test kit from Amazon

    ________________________________________

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    Got your "Shimmer" pics; thanks. Unfortunately, couldn't ID the materials used to dilute the cal hypo, except for the borax.

    Lemme know when you have test results, or if you have any acute problem pop up. Keep swimming as long as the pH is between 7 and 8, the chlorine > 2 ppm, and the water clear.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok have ordered the K-2006 from Amazon. I did PH down last night and the chlorine level was 3. Didn't have time this morning but will test tonight. I haven't used any borax yet, was I suppose too?
    PF=10 - 12.5k gal 15x30 AG pool. Ecoaquapro.com pump & filter. 2HP 2spd pump; 120sft Black Diamond filter.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    Quote Originally Posted by meme2 View Post
    I haven't used any borax yet, was I suppose too?
    Borax RAISES pH, so no, not needed at present. Just keep on with the daily doses of pH Down, till your pH reaches 7.6 or lower. And keep dosing with chlorine. Once you get the kit, and have a set of results, post them. But as long as the pH is below 7.6, and the chlorine is > 2 ppm, and the water is clear . . . you should be fine, for now.

    By the way, you might want to take a look at these videos on using the K-2006: http://pool9.net/tk-guide/ . I think most people find the kit easier, if they've seen it done, before doing it themselves.

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