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Thread: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

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    Default Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    Good morning.

    I have a 15X30 above ground pool. I have had this pool for 6 years with no trouble, this year when we opened we need to add a lot of well water since that I have not been able to clear the water up. Looks like it has milk in it. Clear for about 2 inches and then you can see little white particles floating. I have a cartilage filter and it seems to be filtering the water with lots of force and catching the particles. The filter is very slimy and white. Ok so I have been told overload of phosphate, so we treated. Nothing happened.

    We have flocced the pool and nothing happened. All the levels seem to be normal. I also have had the chlorine level above normal and nothing is happening. Could the water be to hard?

    Would that make the water cloudy? Help!

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosapates, water to hard.......

    ________________________________________

    I'm sorry; you've been "pool-stored" in a big way!

    Step-by-step; taking what you've told me:

    1. Phosphate levels NEVER, EVER cause white cloudy water.
    Congratulations! You now know for certain that your pool store guys are are either liars or idiots.
    (High phosphates CAN
    enable -- but not cause -- algae. But algae is not white.)

    2. The visible particles are probably a result of the floc. Using floc is a very uncertain process. It can help, but it often goes badly.
    But what you MUST understand is that the WORSE your pool does, the MORE chemicals the pool store can sell you. They have -- literally -- no incentive whatever to help you 'do it right'. Why? If you 'do it right' you will NOT be using their services much!

    3. Because you KNOW that your pool store is useless -- either dishonest or incompetent -- your ONLY option is to learn to do it yourself.
    (For what it's worth, MOST pool stores seem to be either dishonest or incompetent. There ARE some good ones, but the only way to you find them is if you know enough to tell if they are giving good advice, but then, at that point, you no longer need them!)

    ________________________________________

    So, where to start?

    1. You MUST decide that you are going to fight your way through a fairly steep learning curve. I can help, but not if you give up before you start. I can promise you that -- once you 'get the hang of it' it is very easy and much cheaper.

    2. The fact that you are on well-water is a wild card. Some well water is nearly impossible to manage simply. The fact that your pool is white rather than orange is a hopeful sign that it won't be too hard.

    3. You MUST have a basic test kit. Unfortunately, the Walmart in Gloucester doesn't have a decent one in stock. For now, get some test strips or simple drops pH / chlorine tester.

    4. You MUST have a COMPLETE test kit. This especially true with well water. The kit is an Amazon only item.

    5. You MUST have some basic chems: chlorine PLUS something to raise and lower the pH level.

    6. You MUST STOP buying pool store 'goop'. Many -- maybe most -- of the chemicals pool stores sell to 'solve' your problems, actually make them worse. One of the reasons to buy 'grocery store' and 'hardware store' chem is NOT that they are cheaper or better, but that they are not MIXED with other 'goop'! For example, every SINGLE chlorine product under the "Clorox' or 'Arm & Hammer' label is mixed with goop, as are most pool store brands.

    ________________________________________

    If you are ready to take control of your OWN pool, go to Walmart (sorry, looks like it's a 30 mile round-trip?) and get

    1. 5 gallons of Pool bleach (to chlorinate, without side-effects)
    2. 1 5lb bottle of pH Down (to LOWER pH)
    3. 3 boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax (to RAISE ph, without side-effects)
    4. Extra filter cartridges, if they have ones that fit your pool.
    5. Some sort of test kit.
    [Quantities based on the assumption of 11,000 gallons ]

    + Then go home, test BOTH your pool water AND your fill water. (If you fill with treated and untreated water, test BOTH)
    + If chlorine is below 2 ppm, add 1/2 gallon of bleach.
    + Clean your filter. Make sure your pump is on 24/7
    + Order a K-2006 test kit from Amazon
    + Report back here with (a) test results, (b) a list of everything added in the last 2 weeks, (3) the make and type of pool AND filter AND pump.
    + I'll give you further instructions based on test results.

    ________________________________________

    To clean up, you may need new cartridges AND some way to slow down your water flow: most pumps for above-ground pools are TOO big, and force dirt THROUGH the cartridge. But without more information, I can't help you.

    Good luck!

    PS. The good news is, once everything is under control -- in the future -- you will be able to manage your own pool easily and fairly cheaply!

    ________________________________________

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    You posted a quote of your question . . . but nothing more. I assume that was an accident? In any case, I removed it.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok gonna try again
    pool evolution advantage pool
    Agua 2.0 pump with simple salt ionizer
    120 sq in black diamond filter
    15X30

    well water test: no chlorine and between 7.6-8.0 PH

    Pool water test:
    PH 8.0
    Chlorine 1.1
    Hardness high
    free chlorine low
    total alkalinity 120
    stabilizer 50

    2week in pool:
    6lbs od stabilizer
    50lbs calcium cloride
    16 gals of chlorine
    1gal of muriatic acid
    gonna send this to see if you get it

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    Default

    Posts by new users have to be moderated (approved) before they can be seen; it's the only way I can keep forum spammers out!

    2week in pool:
    6lbs od stabilizer
    50lbs calcium chloride <= There's the problem!
    16 gals of chlorine
    1gal of muriatic acid
    Calcium + high pH = massive cloudiness! Ironically, on a vinyl pool, you NEVER needed that calcium in the first place!

    So in other words, the pool store first CAUSED the problem, by selling you calcium, then made it worse by selling you FLOC, and now wants to sell you even more stuff.

    Ad this point, you need to add bleach every night to maintain chlorine, and add acid (see link in my blue signature about buying and handling muriatic acid safely) to maintain pH below 7.8.

    You have way, WAY too much calcium in your pool, and need to get some of it out. And, at this point there's about ZERO chance of having it ready for well, today (the 4th of July). I'm not sure how important it is to get your pool back in service quickly. Draining and refilling would be the fastest, but ONLY IF you can fill with decent water. (Dunno what your well water is like).

    Otherwise, you need to keep filtering to remove all the solids. If you have a valve between the pump and filter, throttling to SLOW water flow will INCREASE the effectiveness of your filter. If your pump is a 2 HP pump (and not a "2.0" model number) adding a valve to slow flow will REALLY help. A 2HP pump is way, WAY too big for a 120sft cartridge. Also, getting a second cartridge will help, so you can swap them constantly, till the water is clean.

    By the way, you do NOT want to lower the pH too much -- just below 8.0. The reason is, you want to filter out the excess calcium, not re-dissolve it, which can happen if you lower the pH too much.

    Also, presuming the pool store recommended all these things . . . you REALLY need to stay away from them. Recommending that much calcium is unlikely to be an accident; it's more likely DELIBERATELY predatory salesmanship!
    Last edited by PoolDoc; 07-04-2018 at 10:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok, so this morning I can see the pool bottom which I have not been able to before.

    So I went to Walmart last night and got what you told me too. So use that to lower the ph a little. also was able to put the pump on slow. I'm relying on you no pool store. I don't want to drain it.

    Thank You!

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    Clean your filter frequently. It damages cartridges to have a big pump run against them when they are stopped up.

    Ideally, you should have at least two cartridges so you can rotate them.

    Longer term, you'll need the K-2006 kit + an OTO/phenol red kit (like the HTH 6-way). Normally, you'll only use the OTO/phenol red, but you have to have the K2006 and use it periodically, to keep things on track.

    It is much, MUCH easier to keep a pool on track, than it is to clean-up when it 'goes off the rails'. The upside is, doing it yourself -- the RIGHT way -- is much, much cheaper than using pool stores, so you'll fairly quickly save-back the money spent on test kits.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    ok, I have slowed the pump down the white stuff fell to bottom and I have vacuumed on waste, water has cleared up.

    My question to you is what is the weekly maintenance plan?

    + My PH is still a little high do I need to bring down or leave? (8.0)
    + I assume that the ionizer will still work with the chemicals ill be using.
    + So just need chlorine and ?
    + Leave the pump on low always?

    Lots of questions sorry just want to do it right, with what I was using I only shocked once a week and put clearifier in every 2 weeks and the ionizer did the algae.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    Hm-mh. What you are describing is the floc working the way it many 'floccing agents' SHOULD work.

    Did the label or the pool guy not tell you to turn the pump off and let things 'settle', after adding floc?

    Anyhow, glad it is clearing up. Is the water clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by meme2 View Post
    + My PH is still a little high do I need to bring down or leave? (8.0)
    Your pH should be between 7.2 & 7.8.
    + I assume that the ionizer will still work with the chemicals ill be using.
    Not necessarily. You need to post your pool info: gallons, pool type, filter type, pump type, ionizer type.
    + So just need chlorine and ?
    Chlorine, pH control, stabilizer, for sure. Other stuff depending on info I don't have yet.
    + Leave the pump on low always?
    Unless you have a specific reason to put it on high, yes. Again, I need more info about the pool.

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    Default Re: Nobody knows! Help Is it phosphates, water to hard.......

    yes the water is clear. you should have my pool info in the post back up on the 4th of July. The pool has been off for days at a time after the floc was put in at least a month ago.
    15X30 (12,500. gal)?
    Aqua 2.0 hp pump with ionizer (simple salt)
    120sq in. black diamond filter

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