Best way to open a AG pool after the winter

[FormerBromineUser]

Whoops! I have been out-of-town. Looks like nobody answered you.

Will you please update with your latest test results? Thanks!

[rdefino]

No problem.

My results were the same today, but I did shock it using bleach just a while ago. Chlorine level is at about 12-14ppm as of now.

Was that a no no?

[FormerBromineUser]

You're fine. Glad you got your FC up from zero! One of the things I was going to suggest because of that zero reading, was to do an overnight test. You take it to shock level (15ppm) around dusk. Then test a half hour after that addition and record your FC/CC. Then, the next morning test as early as you can, definitely before direct sun hits the pool, and compare your FC/CC. You are golden if your FC loss <1 and your CC is 0.5 or less as the third criterion for the overnight test is that your water is clear. You already have that! (As an aside, if I do the overnight test, I do it one more night just to make absolutely sure).

Then we can talk about raising that TA. Next time you are going to the store, pick up a box of Arm and Hammer WASHING soda (not baking soda). It's in the laundry aisle.

[rdefino]

Thank you, the water is clear. But should i follow the overnight testing starting tomorrow night. Or just go from and and get my other levels set?

Also, would this be borax "Arm and Hammer WASHING soda (not baking soda)". Having a hard time trying to find borax. I'll see if I can find washing soda.

I thought baking soda was used to raise alkalinity?

Thanks again

[FormerBromineUser]

OMGoodness. I have been up since 2:30 am central after 2-1/2 hours sleep (watched the Blackhawks win!) and had a brain freeze. You will need BAKING soda, NOT washing soda. I am so glad you responded right away!

And no, Borax is not washing soda. Different bird. Should you ever need it, look in the laundry aisle for 20 Mule Team Borax.

As for FC.... Since you are almost at shock level anyway, it seems to me that you may as well do the test now.

Your other levels are fine except for the TA. You could add a half box of regular baking soda at a time until that TA comes up. It's okay to do that at the same time.

[CarlD]

I need to correct this: Washing Soda will raise BOTH your pH and your TA/Alkalinity and used moderately will work. Washing Soda is exactly the same as pool store's "ph Up!" and similar (expensive) products--Sodium Carbonate (different from Sodium Bicarbonate, and from Borax).

Yes, your TA is low, but your pH is a bit low, too, but still safe at 7.2.

If you were to raise your pH to the "ideal" level of 7.6, you'd see your TA would rise as well. How much is anyone's guess. Remember: Alkalinity level IS a reflection of pH. Using Washing Soda to raise pH will raise TA even more than using just Borax.

But unless you are having troubles keeping pH from dropping, your TA isn't really a big problem. Yes the recommended ranges go everywhere from 100- 120 to 80-130, but in a vinyl pool the REAL determinant is your pH's stability. I've run my pool with no problem with TA as low as 50 and as high as 170 and I don't worry as long as pH remains stable.

With a vinyl pool, the two times you worry about TA is if it's not keeping pH stable or if it's approaching 200ppm AND your calcium hardness level is over 400ppm.
In the first, if the pH keeps rising you probably want to lower TA. If pH keeps dropping, you'll want to raise it.
In the second situation, you risk the water going milky from calcium. It's not dangerous, just ugly. And the quick fix is to lower TA, a lot.

So, if you cannot find Borax, you can safely use Washing Soda as long as you understand it will raise both pH and TA.

[SunnyOptimism]

Thank you, the water is clear. But should i follow the overnight testing starting tomorrow night. Or just go from and and get my other levels set?

Also, would this be borax "Arm and Hammer WASHING soda (not baking soda)". Having a hard time trying to find borax. I'll see if I can find washing soda.

I thought baking soda was used to raise alkalinity?

Thanks again

@rdefino

If you can be more specific about your pool's volume or send the full dimensions of the pool, then we can better calculate the amounts of chemicals you will need to adjust pH, TA, borates, etc.

Please update your signature with more specifics about your pool and I'll be happy to help you calculate the amounts.

[rdefino]

My pool is oval 18x34 14400 gals .

Finding borax is not easy. So far no one carries it. I could order over the web from amazon. How much do you think would be used over a 3 month summer. trying to figure out how much to buy.

I think using borax instead of washing soda might be better, so I'm not adjusting the TA and PH at the same time. What do you think?

[SunnyOptimism]

My pool is oval 18x34 14400 gals .

Finding borax is not easy. So far no one carries it. I could order over the web from amazon. How much do you think would be used over a 3 month summer. trying to figure out how much to buy.

I think using borax instead of washing soda might be better, so I'm not adjusting the TA and PH at the same time. What do you think?

OK, a couple of quick points then I have to run out -

1. Borax is not the most effective way to raise your alkalinity as it only contributes a small fraction to the Total Alkalinity. Something like 80% of your waters alkalinity comes from carbonate sources.
2. Borax will RAISE your pH. So you need to be careful and adjust your pH down first BEFORE adding Borax. Raising your pH too quickly with Borax can cause cloudy water due to calcium carbonate formation.
3. You can safely swim in water with borates up to 50ppm to 80ppm (50ppm is advisable). After that, you should not add anymore borates without doing a water exchange.
4. You can add borates to your water in one of two ways - 20 Mule Team borax which RAISES pH OR Boric acid powder which LOWERS pH. Both are fine to use; I prefer boric acid. I bought a 55lbs pail of boric acid from Duda Diesel via Amazon and it lasted me two seasons.

As I stated, your TA is mostly made up of carbonate alkalinity, so-

1. If you want to RAISE your TA without raising pH use BAKING SODA (sodium bicarbonate)

2. If you want to RAISE your TA AND RAISE your pH, use WASHING SODA (sodium carbonate)

Here are some numbers based on your pool volume and your previous measurements (not sure what your borate levels are) -

pH: to raise your pH from 7.2 to 7.6 you need to add 12oz (by weight) of washing soda or 24oz of Borax

TA: to raise your TA from 30ppm to 80ppm you'll need ~11 lbs of baking soda

Borates: to go from 0ppm to 50ppm borates you'd need to add 550 oz or 34lbs of boric acid

If you add any chemicals, break them up into 3 or 4 batches, add the batches one at a time and retest your water parameters so you don't overshoot your mark!

Here are some good chemical levels for your pool -

Vinyl with Bleach

FC 3-7
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 70-90+
CH 0-350 (Don't add)
CYA 30-50

Vinyl with SWG

FC 3-5
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 60-80
CH 0-300 (Don't add)
CYA 70-80

[FormerBromineUser]

.
Just my two cents here.... (BTW, I am more alert now!!!)

I don't know how you got a CYA reading of 35; a guess, I guess. However, I would caution against raising your CYA too much higher. You are in a Northern climate and don't have a salt water generator. I am in IL, also SWG-less, and like my CYA around 40.

Simple thought I USUALLY keep in my brain:
Borax: raises pH
Baking Soda: raises TA
Washing Soda: raises pH and TA
It's more complicated than that, but it gives me a starting point.