Best way to open a AG pool after the winter

[rdefino]

My pool is oval 18x34 14400 gals .

Finding borax is not easy. So far no one carries it. I could order over the web from amazon. How much do you think would be used over a 3 month summer. trying to figure out how much to buy.

I think using borax instead of washing soda might be better, so I'm not adjusting the TA and PH at the same time. What do you think?

[SunnyOptimism]

My pool is oval 18x34 14400 gals .

Finding borax is not easy. So far no one carries it. I could order over the web from amazon. How much do you think would be used over a 3 month summer. trying to figure out how much to buy.

I think using borax instead of washing soda might be better, so I'm not adjusting the TA and PH at the same time. What do you think?

OK, a couple of quick points then I have to run out -

1. Borax is not the most effective way to raise your alkalinity as it only contributes a small fraction to the Total Alkalinity. Something like 80% of your waters alkalinity comes from carbonate sources.
2. Borax will RAISE your pH. So you need to be careful and adjust your pH down first BEFORE adding Borax. Raising your pH too quickly with Borax can cause cloudy water due to calcium carbonate formation.
3. You can safely swim in water with borates up to 50ppm to 80ppm (50ppm is advisable). After that, you should not add anymore borates without doing a water exchange.
4. You can add borates to your water in one of two ways - 20 Mule Team borax which RAISES pH OR Boric acid powder which LOWERS pH. Both are fine to use; I prefer boric acid. I bought a 55lbs pail of boric acid from Duda Diesel via Amazon and it lasted me two seasons.

As I stated, your TA is mostly made up of carbonate alkalinity, so-

1. If you want to RAISE your TA without raising pH use BAKING SODA (sodium bicarbonate)

2. If you want to RAISE your TA AND RAISE your pH, use WASHING SODA (sodium carbonate)

Here are some numbers based on your pool volume and your previous measurements (not sure what your borate levels are) -

pH: to raise your pH from 7.2 to 7.6 you need to add 12oz (by weight) of washing soda or 24oz of Borax

TA: to raise your TA from 30ppm to 80ppm you'll need ~11 lbs of baking soda

Borates: to go from 0ppm to 50ppm borates you'd need to add 550 oz or 34lbs of boric acid

If you add any chemicals, break them up into 3 or 4 batches, add the batches one at a time and retest your water parameters so you don't overshoot your mark!

Here are some good chemical levels for your pool -

Vinyl with Bleach

FC 3-7
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 70-90+
CH 0-350 (Don't add)
CYA 30-50

Vinyl with SWG

FC 3-5
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 60-80
CH 0-300 (Don't add)
CYA 70-80

[rdefino]

OK, a couple of quick points then I have to run out -

1. Borax is not the most effective way to raise your alkalinity as it only contributes a small fraction to the Total Alkalinity. Something like 80% of your waters alkalinity comes from carbonate sources.
2. Borax will RAISE your pH. So you need to be careful and adjust your pH down first BEFORE adding Borax. Raising your pH too quickly with Borax can cause cloudy water due to calcium carbonate formation.
3. You can safely swim in water with borates up to 50ppm to 80ppm (50ppm is advisable). After that, you should not add anymore borates without doing a water exchange.
4. You can add borates to your water in one of two ways - 20 Mule Team borax which RAISES pH OR Boric acid powder which LOWERS pH. Both are fine to use; I prefer boric acid. I bought a 55lbs pail of boric acid from Duda Diesel via Amazon and it lasted me two seasons.

As I stated, your TA is mostly made up of carbonate alkalinity, so-

1. If you want to RAISE your TA without raising pH use BAKING SODA (sodium bicarbonate)

2. If you want to RAISE your TA AND RAISE your pH, use WASHING SODA (sodium carbonate)

Here are some numbers based on your pool volume and your previous measurements (not sure what your borate levels are) -

pH: to raise your pH from 7.2 to 7.6 you need to add 12oz (by weight) of washing soda or 24oz of Borax

TA: to raise your TA from 30ppm to 80ppm you'll need ~11 lbs of baking soda

Borates: to go from 0ppm to 50ppm borates you'd need to add 550 oz or 34lbs of boric acid

If you add any chemicals, break them up into 3 or 4 batches, add the batches one at a time and retest your water parameters so you don't overshoot your mark!

Here are some good chemical levels for your pool -

Vinyl with Bleach

FC 3-7
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 70-90+
CH 0-350 (Don't add)
CYA 30-50

Vinyl with SWG

FC 3-5
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 60-80
CH 0-300 (Don't add)
CYA 70-80

To make sure I have this right.

I should get my FC to normal level 5-7, then get my TA up to 70-90+ using baking soda...correct?

Then raise my Ph to 7.6.

How do I test for Borates?

Thanks for all the info!!!!

[CarlD]

OK, you actually have more info than you need here. Forget borates for now. You can always buy borate test strips later.
BEFORE EVERYTHING: FOLLOW THE ADVICE TO ADJUST IN SMALL INCREMENTS THEN TEST!

1) Fix your pH by adding either Borax or Washing Soda--Since your TA is low, Washing Soda is fine.
2) After your pH is around 7.6, test for TA. If it's anything above 60, don't worry about it for now.
3) Add bleach until your FC level is between 3 and 6ppm if you don't have algae. Shock to 15ppm if you do (based on CYA of 35).

Go Swimming!

[rdefino]

OK, you actually have more info than you need here. Forget borates for now. You can always buy borate test strips later.
BEFORE EVERYTHING: FOLLOW THE ADVICE TO ADJUST IN SMALL INCREMENTS THEN TEST!

1) Fix your pH by adding either Borax or Washing Soda--Since your TA is low, Washing Soda is fine.
2) After your pH is around 7.6, test for TA. If it's anything above 60, don't worry about it for now.
3) Add bleach until your FC level is between 3 and 6ppm if you don't have algae. Shock to 15ppm if you do (based on CYA of 35).

Go Swimming!

Cool, Thank everyone for the help. It's gets a little confusing.

Once other question, what is a good stabilizer to use along with the bleach?

Also ,is it ok to use bleach all the time in-place of chlorine for a local pool shop?

[CarlD]

I tried to make it less confusing.

ALL stabilizer is CYA--Cyanuric or Isocyanuric Acid. Easiest way to buy it is as a dry powder. There is a liquid version that works faster but is very, very expensive. The other two ways is from ordinary Di-Chlor powder and Tri-Chlor tablets.

You can use bleach FOREVER. I tend to buy liquid chlorine but only at one particular pool store because it tests out at 14% (though listed as 12%) and when compared to bleach is cheaper--as if I was buying 7% bleach at $1.50/gal. If its unit price goes higher than bleach, I'll use bleach instead.

While BBB stands for "Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda" what it REALLY means is you don't need pricey packaging from the pool store when the same stuff is far cheaper at the supermarket or big box store.

[rdefino]

Thanks, I'm figuring it out with the help of all of you. I just added some washing soda, small amount. I'll wait about 4hrs and retest.

Now isn't di-chlor and tri-chlor clhorine in table form?

[CarlD]

Di-chlor is almost always in powdered form, but I have seen 1" tablets once in a blue moon. For every 10ppm of Free Chlorine, Di-chlor adds about 9ppm of CYA.
Tri-chlor most commonly comes in 3" tablets and is VERY acidic and for every 10ppm of FC adds 6ppm of CYA.

Bleach is pH neutral and adds nothing but chlorine.

[SunnyOptimism]

Cool, Thank everyone for the help. It's gets a little confusing.

Once other question, what is a good stabilizer to use along with the bleach?

Also ,is it ok to use bleach all the time in-place of chlorine for a local pool shop?

The best way I have found to add cyanuric acid to your pool is to measure a 1lb (16oz) sample of it into a nylon skimmer sock, tie off the top and place the sock in front of a pool return. It will dissolve slowly. If you don't have an easy way to hang it in front of return, then throw it in the skimmer basket BUT only leave it in there while the pump is running. Never leave it in there when the water is stagnant. Never pour CYA directly into the skimmer or the pool as it dissolves slowly and can plug up your skimmer line.

CYA, like dichlor and trichlor, is acidic and will lower both pH and TA. So be careful when adding large amounts of it and keep and eye on your pH.

As for bleach, I try to find the best deal by dividing price by volume and % sodium hypochlorite. That way you can make an apples-to-apples comparison. Always check the date code on the bleach bottles as that will tell you if it is fresh. Bleach left sitting around naturally decays over time losing hypochlorite. Old bleach is bad bleach.

[FormerBromineUser]

.
Just my two cents here.... (BTW, I am more alert now!!!)

I don't know how you got a CYA reading of 35; a guess, I guess. However, I would caution against raising your CYA too much higher. You are in a Northern climate and don't have a salt water generator. I am in IL, also SWG-less, and like my CYA around 40.

Simple thought I USUALLY keep in my brain:
Borax: raises pH
Baking Soda: raises TA
Washing Soda: raises pH and TA
It's more complicated than that, but it gives me a starting point.