A picture is worth a thousand words . . .

[mbar]

What is your fill water's alkalinity? Sometimes it is good to drain some water and refill, but first I would really try to lower the ph down to 7.0 - 7.2. You may as well try this first, since you have a lot of chlorine in your water now. See if it makes a difference, if not then I will explain the ascorbic acid treatment.

[Pamsel]

Test results this morning:

CL 14-15
PH 8.0
TA 340
Water appearance unchanged

I added 12 ozs acid twice yesterday and my PH has not gone down. Is that because the TA is so high? If so, doesn't the PH have to come down first in order to get the TA down? I feel like I'm in a vicious cycle. I have to be gone for the day. Since the CL is high, I'm going to add about 24 ozs acid this morning and hold off on any more CL until I get home, mid-afternoon and will test again then. Also, I know from this forum that the high PH makes my CL less effective and the high CL can make my PH test results skewed, right?

I haven't tested my fill water, Marie. I will do that when I get home, since I need to be leaving soon. I did drain down about 1/3 two weeks ago when I first came to this forum.

I am considering calling a local service I just heard about called The Pool Doctor - supposedly they will come and service/treat the pool until it's right. Trouble is, that will cost me more $$$$ and will probably fill my water with who knows what chemicals. On the other hand, if he will clear up the water, maybe it's worth it?? I don't know...

I have 1/2 a bottle of BioGuard "Pool Magnet Plus" which says on the bottle it "ties up heavy metals and prevents stains caused by metals". However, I remember using this a couple of years ago and whatever it did, it seemed to pull the metals out of the water and drop them to the bottom of the pool. I remember that every time I put fill water in the pool, the bottom of the pool would get covered with yellow-brown stuff that I had to vacuum off the bottom of the pool. It was very frustrating at the time, but I'm wondering now if it would pull copper out of the water, in case that is the problem here.

Any thoughts on all of this confusion??

[Pamsel]

Well, my 6:00 pm CL & PH are:

CL 6.0
PH 7.8

I am convinced that I still have algae or I don't think I'd be losing that much CL during the day - even on a sunny day. I took another picture of the steps tonight, after not brushing or vacuuming for a day so that you can see what has settled out on the top step and see how yellow the second step is, due to what has settled on it. How can algae still be alive and growing after all this chlorine??

http://www.mtco.com/~aug20/6-13-06.jpg

I asked about this last week but didn't pursue it - but how do I know if I have a filtration problem? I am thinking that may be it. It really doesn't matter what I pour into this pool - NOTHING CHANGES!! I have put almost 85 gallons of Chlorine in the pool and in the past two weeks, 2 gallons of acid with almost no results. Tonight, my filter pressure guage is spasmodically hovering between 35-40 and it has always run steadily at 18-20. Even when I backwashed, it didn't change, so I don't know if that means the guage broke today or if this indicates something going on with the filter.

I am getting desperate for some answers!

[KurtV]

Pam, Your alkalinity is very high. That's what is making it difficult to get your pH down. Your high pH is probably limiting the effectiveness of your chlorine and that may well be contributing to your difficulty with killing the algae.

I'd get the pH down (no matter how much acid that takes), keep your chlorine at shock levels, and have patience. You can lower the alkalinity once the algae problem is resolved.

Best of luck.

[Pamsel]

I just read on a lowering alkalinity thread that one should get the PH down and then aerate to lower TA - that aeration will raise PH. Is this correct? I've been aearating 24/7 for most of two weeks, trying to lower my PH & TA. Have I been doing this wrong and causing my PH to stay high? I really am confused as to what to be working on and in what order. Some say to get the algae taken care of first and then work on the PH. Others say get that PH and TA down now! I really am confused about all of this. I have mentioned a couple of times that I'm aerating, but until now, no one mentioned that it could be adding to my high PH problem. I guess I have so many issues going on, no one can catch them all!

Just saw your message, Haze. I think I need to go stop the aerating for now. When I backwash, I do not get much coming out. The water is greenish at first, but clears up fairly quickly...not much else. A couple of weeks ago, the water was brown for a good minute before clearing up when I backwashed.

[haze_1956]

Same thought at same time - It's like telepathy !! LOL

I saw the picture had a lot of dirt on steps so something is dying.

Pool really should be a lot clearer after 2 weeks of high CL

I agree with stopping aeration and see if the acid will then lower PH

High pressure and no real dirt on backwash could mean filter is clogged. Maybe time to open it and check how junked up the sand is.

[mbar]

Pam, I was wondering about your filter too. It seems not to be filtering too well - since there is no change in the appearance of the water no matter what. I am convinced now that it is algae - I think something is wrong with the filter, especially that there isn't much in the backwash. Your water seemed to be cleaner in the other photos after vacuuming to waste - if it was just the color of the water, there wouldn't be all of the stuff on the bottom of the pool. You really will have to dose the pool with acid. Yes, while aerating it, your ph will rise as your alkalinity lowers - but only when you get your ph as low as 7.0 - 7.2. So I don't think you have been doing anything, becuase the ph has never been low enough to lower the alkalinity - I hope you understand this - if you don't please ask, I will try to explain it better. I would ask in the pool construction and repair forum about what could be wrong with the filter. I was trying to find out the difference between chelating and sequestering the metals, but they both seem to do the same thing. I know the chelating copper algacides have the copper binding so that it doesn't fall out onto the pool, but so does the sequesterant. If someone else can explain it I would really appreciate it.

[waterbear]

VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!! DO NOT TRY AND TEST OR AJUST YOUR pH WHEN THE CHLORINE LEVELS ARE ABOVE ABOUT 10 PPM. YOU WILL GET INTERFERANCE AND A FALSE HIGH pH READING. From two of your posts above:
CL 14-15
PH 8.0
and
CL 6.0
PH 7.8

Sorry for shouting like that! Here are my thoughts, I could be wrong.
The green color does look like copper, even with the sequesterant you might be oxidizing the copper with the high clorine levels. I think the stuff in the pool is dead algae now and the filter is not taking it out for some reason. What kind of filter do you have? You might want to make sure it is working properly. Is the pressure reading normal? If it is a sand filter you might have channeling in it. You can clean the sand if that is the case. If it is a sand filter you can also add a bit of DE to it (enought to raise the pressure 1psi) This can help it filter out the finer stuff. Try letting the chlorine drop to normal levels and hit it with a seqesterant again. Jack's Magic Blue Stuff is designed specifically for copper. You might want to try that and see if it clears the green. Get your chlorine and pH levels to where the bottle says before treating. If it works THEN lower your TA!

[Pamsel]

We replaced the sand last summer, so I've not been too concerned that the sand is junked up. But, it's probably worth taking a look. I'll have to have my husband get involved with opening the filter - that's a bit out of my league I think.

I went out tonight about 10:00 pm and could see stuff settled on the bottom, so swept the entire pool again and then added 4 gallons of CL to get it back up to shock level. Am waiting a couple of hours and then going to add more acid again. Then I'm going to bed and will see what it looks like in the morning!!

Edit - I typed the above message before seeing your posts, Marie and Evan. But I guess for now, I'll stay with the plan I posted, since I have already added the CL and it does seem important to get the PH down. I also stopped the aeration for now. My pressure guage is now above 45, but everything sounds normal out there - would there be any difference in the sound of the filter running if there's a real problem? Funny thing is that it was reading normal (18-20) this morning before I left for the day and when I came back this evening, it was over 30 and each time I check it, it's gone higher. Also, normally when I backwash, the pressure drops to 0 but tonight it stayed high, so I'm wondering if it's broken??

[haze_1956]

I see from the threads you are at this for 2 weeks, so I can well imagine your frustration level must be way up there.

Problems are, Pool is still green, PH will not lower and Filter pressure too high.

Pool green, from Algae or Copper ?
Googling found this info – The best way to deal with copper is with a chelating agent, not a sequestering agent. The copper products used, as swimming pool algaecides, are typically in a chelated (stabilized) form.
This leads me to think that the Copper Algaecide should not turn the pool green, but if you think it has, you would want to add a “chelating agent” . From what I read, chelation stablizes the copper and keeps it in solution, stopping the pool being green. But only by replacing the water will the copper actually be removed from the pool

Ph will not lower-
The whole aeration process seems simple. Use Acid to maintain lower PH to 6.8-7.0 and then use aeration to lower Alkalinity.
But I seem to recall reading in the forum that using aeration above 7.0–7.2 will increase PH. I may be mistaken on that, I am sure someone will chime in should that be incorrect. But I am wondering if your aerating is actually keeping the PH high. Perhaps you need to stop aerating for now, and keep adding acid, until PH drops to 7.0

Filter Pressure high–
I think that is for the Pool guys who really know the equipment. But I believe it is low pressure means problem before the pump, and high pressure means problem after pump.

I’m also wondering what you have coming out of the filter when you backwash?

Best of luck, we are all rooting for you !!
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