HELP - leak maybe? advice

[waste]

As I tried to point out in my original post, it sounds like a broken return line - that's where I'd look first.
The pool looses a heckuvalot more water while the pump is running, therefore water is being FORCED through the leak.
If the filter system is below water level, it could be backwash blow-by - I don't think so though (but I can't put my finger on why not ) Also a pump problem would have been noticed.
A suction side leak would draw air into the pump, causing priming problems and bubbles, certainly not exacerbating the leak.
A stuck hydrostat valve or a cracked skimmer housing would cause water loss but, the amount of water lost daily would remain the same, whether or not the system was running.
It's always possible that you have multiple leaks in the pool, but given the discrepency between the water loss with the pump running vs. without, I'll lay odds on finding the main leak on the back (effluent) side of the pump

[mwsmith2]

Yup I agree, if it leaks down faster when the pump is running, it is definitely on the effluent side of the pump.

As for how they fixed the leak in the skimmer throat, they used waterproof epoxy that the kneaded together and stuffed in the crack. They said it wouldn't be a permanent fix, but 1.5 years later, it's still holding fine. If it gives up, I'll go buy some more and stuff it in there!

Michael

[duraleigh]

Hey, I'm not gettin' hung out here by myself...I think it's pressure side, too!!

The increase with the pump on slipped by me and I probably should've never brought up suction side as a first culprit.

After all that, I can see a remote scenario where it could be a cracked skimmer and I'd check it just cause it's easy to get to with the phenol red.

I agree that pressure check will find your issue...almost assuredly.

Dave S.

[xoroniox]

As I tried to point out in my original post, it sounds like a broken return line - that's where I'd look first.
The pool looses a heckuvalot more water while the pump is running, therefore water is being FORCED through the leak.
If the filter system is below water level, it could be backwash blow-by - I don't think so though (but I can't put my finger on why not ) Also a pump problem would have been noticed.
A suction side leak would draw air into the pump, causing priming problems and bubbles, certainly not exacerbating the leak.
A stuck hydrostat valve or a cracked skimmer housing would cause water loss but, the amount of water lost daily would remain the same, whether or not the system was running.
It's always possible that you have multiple leaks in the pool, but given the discrepency between the water loss with the pump running vs. without, I'll lay odds on finding the main leak on the back (effluent) side of the pump

Hey, ok one thing is bothering me let me explain a little better.

the first test i did was fill the pool 2-3" above the skimmer level fill a bucket of water and mark both the outside and inside water level after that i turned on the filter and left it alone for 12hours, the result was 2" loss in water.

the second test i did i left the water level just below the skimmer, closed the valve so the skimmer suction line doesnt pull air/water and fill the bucket of water again and mark the inside and outside water level, turned on the filter and left it for 12hours the result was 1/3" water loss.

the third test i did was leave the water level just below the skimmer and fill the bucket mark the inside and outside water levels and leave the filter off and the water loss was about 1/3" maybe a drop less.

the final test i am doing is fill the pool 2-3" above the skimmer and mark the inside/outside water levels of the bucket and leave the filter off for 12hours and check results. i will post results tomorrow

Now if the leak was in the return lines to the pool wouldnt the water loss be the exact same during/after test 1 AND test 2? What i am planning to do as of now is dig up the earth to find both the suction and return plumbing and check the length of both for leaks, if any is found cut/replace pvc with new, if no leaks no big deal i just put the dirt back in the hole and waste a few hours work which i am willing to do.

I really appreciate everyones help on my problem and i am waiting until we work out the kinks here until i actually dig up or attempt any repair.

[xoroniox]

also to note no leaks by the pump/motor/filter, i will try to conduct the phenol red test on the skimmer housing tomorrow sometime in the afternoon, NEEDS to be mentioned anytime the filter system is turned on after priming coming out of ONE return line is a constant flow of tiny bubbles but not very many at a time. as far as the pressure test i am still looking for research on this test online and i would love to conduct it if i am able and have the tools.

Thanks again to everyone.

[duraleigh]

Okay, since my buddy, Oxoroniox (man, you need a better username ) isn't completely convinced about the pressure side leak, I'm going to post my "pie-in-the-sky" scenario about it being in the skimmer.

I can envision a crack in the skimmer running diagonally to the water flow and very near a point where the water is forced to change direction. With no flow through the skimmer, the sides of the crack stay virtually together and there is almost no leak.

When the pump comes on, however, there is enough pressure from the redirection of the water that the thin plastic sides gap open a little allowing quite a large volume of water to escape. If this is feasible, I do not think this scenario would intake air.

Okay, Okay, I'll start drinking less from now on

[Poconos]

This stuff was posted in the old forum and therefore lost so here it is again. The leak test jig is simply a tubeless tire valve and pressure gauge mounted to a piece of PVC pipe and then coupled to the system, wherever you can, using a straight section of auto radiator hose and clamps of the appropriate size. You can use a cheapo pool pressure gauge, metal threads, instead of the 100 PSI gauge I used. I drilled a slightly undersized hole in the pipe and just threaded the gauge into the pipe using the threads on the gauge to cut the pipe. Or, the proper way, use the right tap. Tire stem can be found at any auto store. Drill the right size hole and push the stem through from the inside, as you would replacing a tubeless tire stem. For both the gauge and stem I smeared silicone seal on the inside and let it cure. To pressure test just plug the return lines and pressurize the pipes and wait to see if the pressure bleeds down. I do this ever Fall and Spring just to make sure nothing has happened. Hope this helps.
Al
PS...when pressurizing the system make sure the jig is really securely tightened to the pipe. If it blows off it can do some serious damage as a projectile. Also don't stand where it can hit you if it does fly off. 25 PSI should be more than adequate for testing the pipes. (ajs-1)

[pmdelage]

Thanks for your help, so to check this i would swim to down to the main down, does it matter if the filter system is on or off? and open the main drain cover and check for the valve because i am not sure if my pool has that valve or not. if it does lift the valve and close it and hope that does something.

I would think that any IG pool that has a chance of ground water being higher than pool water will have a hydrostatic valve. This is what keeps the pool from becoming a boat and rising out of the ground if the ground water gets higher than the water in the pool. You might go to a pool store and get a look at one so you can see that it is a spring loaded one way valve that should let water in but not out. Mine is part of the main drain box. Good luck, Paul

[xoroniox]

I would think that any IG pool that has a chance of ground water being higher than pool water will have a hydrostatic valve. This is what keeps the pool from becoming a boat and rising out of the ground if the ground water gets higher than the water in the pool. You might go to a pool store and get a look at one so you can see that it is a spring loaded one way valve that should let water in but not out. Mine is part of the main drain box. Good luck, Paul

hey ok im gonna head over to my local pool store to get a look @ it anyway even if it has nothing to do with my problems with is a very important thing for me to know about because i drained my pool not 2 long ago for another reason and i was very scared about the "boating" issue IG pools here in florida have so i didnt drain it all the way anyway thanks for your info ill get on that.

[xoroniox]

This stuff was posted in the old forum and therefore lost so here it is again. The leak test jig is simply a tubeless tire valve and pressure gauge mounted to a piece of PVC pipe and then coupled to the system, wherever you can, using a straight section of auto radiator hose and clamps of the appropriate size. You can use a cheapo pool pressure gauge, metal threads, instead of the 100 PSI gauge I used. I drilled a slightly undersized hole in the pipe and just threaded the gauge into the pipe using the threads on the gauge to cut the pipe. Or, the proper way, use the right tap. Tire stem can be found at any auto store. Drill the right size hole and push the stem through from the inside, as you would replacing a tubeless tire stem. For both the gauge and stem I smeared silicone seal on the inside and let it cure. To pressure test just plug the return lines and pressurize the pipes and wait to see if the pressure bleeds down. I do this ever Fall and Spring just to make sure nothing has happened. Hope this helps.
Al
PS...when pressurizing the system make sure the jig is really securely tightened to the pipe. If it blows off it can do some serious damage as a projectile. Also don't stand where it can hit you if it does fly off. 25 PSI should be more than adequate for testing the pipes.

Hey,
AWESOME thanks for this reply i think it will help alot. great info