Very Cloudy/Foaming issues

[Apatton]

Arizona in ground pool, sand filter, push pull backwash vale. 25,000 gallon + attached in ground spa.

Summary: Pool became a green monster after my palm trees were trimmed. Tons of shock and green algecide later (Swimtrine Plus - full container) pool turned a beautiful blue with all the dead algae on the bottom...sort of a cream color. I've been running the pool 24/7 every weekend in addition to my 8 hours at night, lots of back washing, vacuuming, and trying to keep my chemicals up (chlorine is good, pH is a bit low, just under 7.2). No matter what I do I cannot get rid of the following:

- Pool is insanely cloudy, cannot see bottom. I have put in tons of clarifier, including BioDex - Clearex 500, no beneficial results.
- When pool is circulating there is a TON of foam buildup on the surface. I thought it would pass after weeks of cleaning/back washing/maintenance, but so far it hasn't seemed to dissipate.

I have been checking the pool for sand to see if I may have a broken lateral, but have not come across any as of yet. Pool sand was changed out a year and a half ago, so I don't think I have something wrong with my filter, but I do notice when the pool first kicks on, the return jets blowing water from the system back into the pool are pushing in very cloudy water. It's almost as if the filter is not catching it. It seems like no matter what I do, I cannot fix these issues!

[Apatton]

I backwash into a gravel section in my yard. I'll check when I get home shortly.I assume i'm checking for a broken lateral?

======================

Later:

No sand in backwash. Just redid testing with my neighbor (pool guy)...High alkalinity. Put in acid to hopefully fix. Popped top to filter, everything looks good. Will report back tomorrow....hate this pool.

[Watermom]

@the pool store ----- welcome to the Pool Forum. But, we typically don't advise adding Foam Down and floc is only as a last resort. Since you are 'in the biz,' you may find that our methods are not what you may consider the norm for maintaining a pool. We would respectfully ask that you read and enjoy getting familiar with the forum but for now, please refrain from giving chemistry advice. We usually find it best if our 'pool guys' initially take the time to just get to know what we are all about instead of answering posts as soon as they join. We hope you understand.

@Apatton --- I want you to test your sand filter to see if it is working properly by adding a handful of DE to the skimmer while the pump is running and watch the returns to see if white powder is blowing back into the pool. More about this can be found here:> http://pool9.net/de-test/

Report back the results of this test. Also, tell us what kind of test kit you are using to test with and exactly what all you have added to the pool -- meaning ingredients, please. Your foaming is definitely from the algaecide. This is one of the main reasons why the only algaecide we recommend is 60% polyquat. Most others do little to help and cause lots of issues that are difficult to clean up.

Welcome to the Pool Forum, by the way!

(Until your registration is completed, you won't be able to follow links nor see the rest of the forum while you are logged in. So, copy the link and paste it into a browser window after you first log out.)

[Apatton]

Items used to clean up very green pool: Fresh n clear oxidizing shock (non chlorine shock), Hydro clear shock, and a gallon of Swimtrine Algecide (63% copper ethanolamine). I understand that I probably used too much, but having battled this pool for weeks with zero improvement (in fact it was getting worse) I was getting fed up.

- I did the DE test, but with my pool water already a bit cloudy it was a bit difficult to see, but not impossible. From my vantage point there was not any amount of white-ish water shooting out of my return that was any worse then the cloudy water already being put back in rotation. After adding the DE, i did notice my pressure go up by 2 lbs. Based on the other post you had me reference, this is 1 lb more then i would have wanted, but still within acceptable range to continue without backwashing. I'll let it go tonight and backwash tomorrow morning.

- My pool test kit is a pretty basic one, got it at the pool store. 5 different droppers, two tubes. One for chlorine, the other for Ph and alkalinity. I updated it in my profile, but I do not appear to have sufficient access to view my own profile or else I would post it here.

I have also added a ton of pool clarifier to try and clear up my cloudy pool, everything from your basic buy one get one free stuff at shady back alley pool stores, to Clearex 500 that I get at the larger retail pool stores. Once I determined the Clearex did nothing to dissipate the cloudiness, I knew i had a problem.

[Apatton]

**Follow up from my post last night** After the pool ran 8 hours, i noticed no difference in cloudiness. I decided since my water was mostly settled, i'd give the DE test another shot since it would be easier to notice. I first backwashed to get any junk from last night out, then added DE to my skimmer. A few minutes later there was a noticeable white cloud shooting out of my return back to my pool.

[BigDave]

That sounds to me like you'll need to open the filter and inspect. A proper sand bed should be able to hold DE. Did/does alot of sand come out in backwash?

[BigDave]

Maybe insufficient sand, some other broken or misplaced parts. Anything that would let the water go around or straight through the sand bed.

[CarlD]

By "High alkalinity" do you mean high Total Alkalinity or an elevated pH lever? "High alkalinity" shouldn't be the source of your problems in either case. And, if it's Total Alkalinity, just adding Muriatic Acid isn't going to fix it.

I'm thinking there's nothing wrong with your filter, but that you've been advised (and sold) to throw in so much junk that clearing it all out is going to take some time.

BD, WM: what do you think of this recommendation?

1) Give us a full set of test numbers: FC, CC or TC, pH, CH, T/A and CYA.
2) Backwash. Then add just enough DE (about 1/4 to 1/3) cup through your skimmer to raise your PSI 1lb.
3) adjust pH and FC levels to recommended shock level for your CYA level (http://pool9.net/cl-cya/)
4 Buy a package of "Skimmer Socks" (or similar skimmer liners under another brand name). They are cheap. Put one in your skimmer.
5) Run your pump 24/7. If it's a two speed, run it on High. Let this run for a day or two.
6) See if the pressure on the pump went up, and if the skimmer sock is full. If so, backwash and add more DE and wash out the skimmer sock and replace.
7) Keep pH between 7.2 and 7.8, and keep FC at shock level.
8) Let us know what happens and we can recommend the next step/steps.

[BigDave]

@CarlD: The filter has failed DE test. It needs to be addressed to clear pool.
@Apatton: It's probably a bad idea to mix and match our advice and your neighbor's.

[CarlD]

- I did the DE test, but with my pool water already a bit cloudy it was a bit difficult to see, but not impossible. From my vantage point there was not any amount of white-ish water shooting out of my return that was any worse then the cloudy water already being put back in rotation. After adding the DE, i did notice my pressure go up by 2 lbs. Based on the other post you had me reference, this is 1 lb more then i would have wanted, but still within acceptable range to continue without backwashing. I'll let it go tonight and backwash tomorrow morning.

BigDave: From this above ^^^ it sounds like his filter PASSED the DE test, rather than failed it.