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Thread: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

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    Post Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    Hello,

    I am new to the forum and would like to ask advice about total hardness. My tap water is very hard. My last test showed a total hardness of 400ppm. I was told to use Poolife Intensive Stain Prevention Treatment to help keep the total hardness from getting any higher. Is this really necessary or is there some other ways to lower the hardness level without buying expensive equipment?

    My second question is I want to switch to polyquat as an algicide. The problem is that I have 4 gallons of No Mor Problems. I have read the bromide is not good but in outdoor pools with lots of sun and heat it will dissipate quickly and not remain forever? If this is true, would it be possible to continue using this until it is all gone before switching?

    Thanks for your help.

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    Default Re: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    A level of 400ppm of CH is kind of at the high end, but still manageable. For a concrete/tile/plaster or other hard-sided pool, a CH from 200-400 is recommended, along with a Total Alkalinity of 80-120ppm. The calcium in the water protects the calcium on the walls from being leeched out. For a vinyl pool, CH is useless and can only cause clouding of the water and scaling. But that's not likely to happen if you keep your T/A below 180.

    What I would do is lower TA to around 80-100, and, unless your pH starts trending down, keep it there. Try to keep your pH to the lower end of the 7.2-7.8 range as well and you should be fine. You may not lower your CH, but it should be manageable without clouding or scaling.

    As for the other stuff--I wouldn't use it unless our owner, PoolDoc (Ben), has a specific recommendation for what to do with it. Ben may also have a recommendation for how to lower CH short of trucking in water, or capturing rain water.
    Carl

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    Default Re: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    Thank you. Is calcium harness the same as total hardness? I have a Pentair test kit for total hardness and the Taylor kit was for calcium hardness??

    I've had to drain 75% of my pool water due to high cya reading of 100ppm. I could not get a chlorine reading of even 1ppm so thought I needed to add more tablets and didn't realize I was also adding more stabilizer. I also noticed a few spots of black algae appearing which was another red flag that my chlorine was no longer effective. I was shocking w/3 lbs calcium hypochlorite once a week during this time as well. I think this overchlorinating with the trichlor and the shocking over a long period of time are to blame, but at this point I feel clueless? I had no idea about stabilizer and just followed the advice of the pool stores? I use a sand filter and the pool is 30,000 gallons.
    Readings I did get since the drain and refill:

    ph 7.8
    alkalinity 80

    I still cannot get any chlorine reading, still showing zero. I had assumed the cause was either the No Mor Problems masking the chlorine test or the high stabilizer level. Ran out of solution to retest for the acid level after the pool refill and 12 hr pump circulation of that water. I won't have more test reagents until Wed for that and today is Sun. I had to order more online since the pool store I usually go to here is all out. Because I don't know what if there has been a successful reduction in acid level or even what the actual reading is, I am at a loss for how many gallons of bleach to add? I plan on following the BBB method henceforth.

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    Default Re: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    Yes, Calcium and Total Hardness are pretty much the same thing. With your problems you should be chlorinating with bleach or liquid chlorine. Each 121 oz jug of 8.25% bleach should add about 2.6ppm of chlorine to your water.
    It's not difficult to maintain and keep clean a pool with a CH of 400 and a CYA of 100. But you DO need the K-2006 test kit, or at least the K-1515 single test to maintain it.

    I think you need to spend a little time learning how our BBB system works and how you balance chlorine, pH, and CYA levels to keep it under control.

    However ONE thing is true: It's virtually impossible to follow both our advice and a pool store's as they will contradict each other many times. However, we have the documentation and the science (chemistry) and the empirical results of tens of thousands of happy pool owners to support our methods.
    Carl

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    Default Re: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    I managed to lower the calcium level and acid level both by half. So now my calcium reading is 200ppm and the cyanuric acid is at 50ppm. I am using the chart from Pool Solutions that indicates the minimum chlorine level based on the temp/stabilizer level. With two gallons bleach in 30,000 gallon pool, I can get the free chlorine reading at 4.5ppm. I still have the black algae spots and not sure what I should use to try and get rid of them since I am not using cal hypochlorite shock anymore? I suppose just super chlorinate with the bleach to around 10ppm? Same thing as shocking with the granules, right?

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    Default Re: Total Hardness/No Mor Problems Questions

    OK, let me untangle this a little:
    First "acid level" refers to your pH level, not your Cyanuric Acid level, which is your CYA or Stabilizer level.

    Second, Not sure HOW you lowered both your calcium and CYA levels unless you drained off half your water and refilled. I believe there ARE ways to lower CH, but they are complicated and require careful timing. Perhaps you are measuring them wrong.

    Third, if you have black algae and CYA=50ppm, you need to shock your pool to at least 15ppm, not 10ppm, and keep it there till the algae is dead, usually several days. You'll need to brush the pool every day to knock the black algae loose so the chlorine can thoroughly infiltrate and kill it (Black Algae is tough stuff), while maintaining chlorine levels at 15 or higher. You'll need to run your filter 24/7 till you do. So, no, raising chlorine to 10 is NOT going to work. But using bleach to get it to 15 or higher WILL work, with patience.

    Fourth: While chlorine is chlorine, you do NOT want to shock with anything but bleach or Liquid Chlorine and DEFINITELY NOT with granules. There are two types: Di-chlor, which adds almost as much CYA as it does chlorine, and Cal-hypo, which adds calcium. Since you just worked to reduce BOTH your CYA and CH levels, the LAST thing you want to do is re-introduce either. So stick to bleach/LC.
    Carl

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