Need help...still cloudy after more than a week...very hard water

[2inthecountry]

Hello from another newbie to BBB.
I have a 16 x 24 oval above ground pool with a sand filter. We have been using Softswim the past 2 summers. First year was fine, 2nd year was cloudy all summer and this year we opened with algae... so I found this and decided to convert. My well water is extremely hard so we use a water softener inside. After a week of following the instructions (started 6-14-14), adding tons of bleach, backwashing, scrubbing sides and cleaning regularly, the pool went through the gross stages and is now looking good, with the exception of remaining cloudiness. (I only had the simple tester and kept the cholorine a bright orange.) I finally got the good test kit yesterday (Taylor K 2006) and these are the numbers (first time so not sure how accurate?)

TC 3
FC 1
CC 2

TA 250
CH 575 (don't need this in a vinyl pool?)
PH 7.8
CYA ?(I tested once but was not cloudy so not sure if I did it right. Thought I'd check in before testing again)

We were gone for the weekend and I left "floaters" made from half-filled bleach bottles with a slits cut to "leach out". It obviously did not keep the shock level high enough

When putting these numbers in the pool calculator, it said to add muriatic acid and more bleach, which I will do this morning. It also said to replace 55% of the pool water! Really? Considering my hard water, I don't think that will help much.

The other factor is my filter. It was new last year and I added new sand. However, we get a lot of debris from trees, bugs, etc. and it looked really dirty this spring. I rinsed it well before starting it up, knowing I would need to replace the sand after conversion anyway. So, the new sand is ready and waiting until the water clears up.

Here are my questions:
1. What is probably causing the cloudiness? Hard water? Dirty filter? Not high enough shock level consistently?
2. Why does my PH read normal when the TA is so high?
3. What is my next step? If I add acid to adjust the PH and TA, will that delay the process of clearing or help?
4. CYA-Why is it non-existent and should I be adding some? I bought some last week. Since the tri-clor tabs have some CYA in them, would it be feasible to get some to keep it consistent?
5. Should I go ahead and change the sand so the filter works more efficiently, or would I have to change it again after it clears?

Everything I had read says to just use bleach and lots of it, but it seems adjustments need to be made. I'm just not sure the best plan of action at this point. I was hoping we would return from our trip to sparking water, but... not meant to be. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Watermom]

*IF* your numbers are right, then you are not finished with your conversion just yet. You need to maintain shock level until you can go from sundown one evening to within an hour of sunrise the next morning without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine AND you have no greater than 0.5ppm of CC AND your water is clear. Then, we usually suggest keeping the chlorine high for one additional day after that before letting it drift down.

Don't bother retesting the CYA at this point. You don't have any in there and you will just be wasting your reagents. After you conversion is complete, you'll need to add some CYA directly but don't do it yet.

Do you have some trichlor tabs now? If so, are they wrapped or unwrapped?

Part of you problem may also be your high CH, TA, and pH. That is not a good combination. You can't do much about your CH since the only real way to lower that is to drain but then refilling will bring it right back up. But, you can do something about the pH and TA. Please read both of these links about the process of lowering TA. http://pool9.net/alk-step AND http://pool9.net/muriatic/

(You'll need to test the pH only when your chlorine is no higher than 10ppm or else you will get an inaccurate reading.)

Don't change the sand yet. Wait until you are totally done with the conversion.

Here are some testing demo videos that may be helpful to you. http://pool9.net/K2006-vid/

Hope this helps. Keep us posted how things are going.

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[2inthecountry]

Thanks. It looks like I am on the right track, then. I got it back up to shock level and bought a bunch more bleach to be sure it stays there. I did add 18 oz. muriatic acid (pool calc said to add 22 oz.) just because I know how hard the water is. But I won't do anymore until after it is completed.

CYA is the only test that uses a lot of reagents, so I'm glad you confirmed that it isn't necessary.

I don't have any tabs, just thought about it. Years ago, we had a round pool that we kept a dispenser with tabs in all the time since I was busy with lots of little kids. Convenient but not necessary?

I watched the videos along with some others to be sure I was testing correctly. That helped.

So, there is progress from this morning. I can actually see something on the bottom and the 4th rung of the ladder! There is hope!

Thank you. I will be testing again this evening.

[Watermom]

Tabs are actually a source of problems for some people. Yes, they are convenient but what gets a lot of people in trouble is that they don't realize that those tabs continuously add CYA to the water and the higher your CYA gets, the higher you have to keep your chlorine to keep algae at bay. And, then they come here and tell us that "I kept my chlorine right where I always have and it has always worked before but now I have algae!" You can read more about the CYA/Chlorine connection here:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

Let us know if you have more questions. We'll be here!

[PoolDoc]

Membership upgraded . . .

. . . the 'gold standard' for completed conversion is the overnight chlorine test:
+ Raise your chlorine above 10 ppm, late in they day.
+ Measure the level carefully near sunset.
+ Retest in the AM no later than 1 hour after sunrise.
+ If you've lost less than 0.5 ppm of chlorine, your conversion is complete, or very nearly complete, and you can change your sand.

[2inthecountry]

Chlorine has been at shock level the past 2 days, however my TA 300 and CH 750 are still very high. PH 8. I have added water to be able to backwash sufficiently and that doesn't help the hardness. Would that be causing a problem I need to deal with?

[Watermom]

Yes, the cloudiness could be in part to your high pH, TA, and CH. Read about the process to lower pH and TA in the following links:>
http://pool9.net/alk-step AND http://pool9.net/ma/

Your CH has jumped a lot since your readings in your post above. Have you used any products with calcium in them such as cal-hypo or is all that from your water supply!? (Well or city water?)

How are your chlorine (FC and CC) readings this morning compared to last night?

[2inthecountry]

I will work with muriatic acid to reduce the TA and follow the other suggestions. It is higher because of adding new water, nothing else.

Chlorine levels were the same at 20 ppm. However, my husband did add another gal of bleach last night. We are having guests Sun. so I am keeping it high to be sure, maybe too high?

I will monitor it closely, as suggested, before sunset and 1 hr. after sunrise.

I can get in, mix it up and vacuum again this afternoon to help aeration.

[Watermom]

Report back tomorrow your results of the overnight test.

[PoolDoc]

With almost no stabilizer present, 20 ppm of chlorine is rather high. FC=20 *and* CYA=0 is high enough to damage swimwear and be irritating to some swimmers.

BUT, if you *really* have no stabilizer, you'll lose almost all your chlorine in an hour under full sun. So, that's a sort of the test. FC=20 and CYA=20 is very different and NOT a problem, even if still rather high.