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Thread: ozinator experience

  1. #1
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    Default ozinator experience

    i thought I'd take a moment to share my ozinator experience.

    Blue Haven built the pool (inground, 800 sqft, 36k gal) 8 years ago and it came with a SWG and ozinator setup. The sales man had nothing but good stuff to say, the couple other builders we spoke to said the ozinator was a waste of money.....but we went with the blue have setup which was a hayward SWG and ultrapure UPP50 UV type ozxinator hooked to the pump inlet.

    Everything went as they said it would. I think it was the fall of the 4th year I noticed for the first time the pool was greening up. It was fall and cold (I live in PA) so I check it maybe once a week and I keep a solar cover on so I can only see it when I check it. ....hmm that never happened before??? Oh, the ozinator bulbs died. Replace the bulb and the pool cleared up.

    A year went by and the next spring the normal when I fired things up the couple bags of walwart shock (I hadn't found this forum yet to know to just buy the walmart bleach ) didn't clear it up. OH, oxinator is dead, this time the power supply. Fixed it and back to normal, clean and nice.

    This was about the time I found this forum for the first time and another thread about blue have and their ozinators. The advice on that thread was the ozinator was probably just snake oil....hmmmm.....could be? I don't know???? Then the ozinator died again so the past 2 year I'v e run the SWG only but it seemed to really be having trouble keeping the FC level up so last year I replaced the cell and it did better but was still running at 70-80% in normal operation so I still needed bleach to shock the pool and it seemed to need it every couple weeks which I guess is normal but for the first 6 years I didn't shock the pool at all other than for spring clean-up. Also the kids eyes seemed a whole lot redder and the water feel was much different independently by my wife and a couple neighbors.

    So.....last week I just laid out $560 and replaced the ozinator. Now the SWG setting is back down to about 30% to hold the FC at 2(it was 805 the previous non-ozinator week) just like it was the first 6 years, the water is back to nice and non-irritating.

    I have learned an awful lot on this forum about a lot of things like how to properly shock the pool and know when it's done, I love the pool calculator, I'm trying 30ppm borax this year, and the importance of cleaning the skimmers and vacuum bag regularly ( I didn't do that my first 6 years! and until I was on Chlorine only never understood why it even mattered), but I have to say that the experience I've had with the ozinator on my pool is right in line with what the manufacture claims....no need to shock, no red eyes, "soft" feeling water and way lower chlorine consumption.....I really like the ozinator and it goes a long way toward making pool maintenance "me" proof

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    Red face Re: ozinator experience

    wow....I can't believe the number of typo's I make and don't find until the next day

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    Glad you're happy with that device.

    A couple notes:
    FC of 2 is pretty low even with a SWCG unless the CYA is also low. You may be running the risk of making someone sick if there's not enough sanitizer in the water to kill beasties that wash off the output of a swimmer's GI tract before reaching somone's input.

    50ppm is the effective level of borates for algae supression. But, why bother with borates at all?
    12'x24' oval 7.7K gal AG vinyl pool; ; Hayward S270T sand filter; Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP pump; hrs; K-2006; PF:16

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Glad you're happy with that device.

    A couple notes:
    FC of 2 is pretty low even with a SWCG unless the CYA is also low. You may be running the risk of making someone sick if there's not enough sanitizer in the water to kill beasties that wash off the output of a swimmer's GI tract before reaching somone's input.

    50ppm is the effective level of borates for algae supression. But, why bother with borates at all?
    I keep the CYA at about 40

    I know itís not supposed to matter because there is no ozone out in the pool, but when the ozonator is running I never have any hint of an algae problem and seeing algae is how I know itís not working. Why that is exactly I have no idea. If I hold the FC at 2 with no ozonator the pool will green up after a month or so unless I shock it every other week. But with the ozonator and a FC in the 1-2 range it stays clean and clear.

    But whatís the right FC number?....I honestly have no idea. I donít normally use any sort of algaecide other than chlorine so I have always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if algae will grow then so will anything else and I need to set the FC level accordingly. The ozonator manufacturer recommends a FC level of 1-2 and Iíve found nothing I can see grows and a FC of 2 at night is still 1+ in the morning so Iíve just been assuming the water is clean. Iíve inadvertently run the FC as low as 0.5 for maybe as long as a couple weeks and seen nothing wrong , but shut down the ozonator and a FC of 2 is not enough to keep the pool clean without the every other week shocking so clearly that is not enough FC to actually keep the pool cleanÖmaybe a FC or 3-4 would be but I havenít tried that for any sustained period so I donít know.

    Ozonator on is a very different pool from ozonator off algae wise but maybe not so much for other organisms?

    I added the borates this year after reading here that it should soften the water (important to my wife) and should help buffer the ph (important to me). My experience with the SWG is that keeping ph stable with the SWG running is a challenge and I was hoping this might stabilize things a bit so things donít go wrong as fast when I forget to check it or pull one of my ďÖ..hmmm, Ĺ gallon or acid should be about rightĒ moves.
    Last edited by mark e; 06-04-2014 at 03:18 PM. Reason: fix on of my many typos

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    The lowest FC reccomendation I recall for SWCG operation is 5% of CYA. Most SWCG manufacturers recommend CYA of 60.

    ... a FC of 2 at night is still 1+ in the morning ...
    Are you losing FC overnight (I presume SWCG and ozone/UV are off)? This indicates there's some bio load in the water. Ozone is a highly effective oxidiser (that's why it's poisonous) and appears to be keeping the algae at bay but doesn't kill it all. It's not really possible to gurantee that all the water will pass through the ozonator, only the water that does gets cleaned. The chlorine is the only thing sanitizing the water in the pool. The sanitization concern is that swimmers will bring pathogens into the pool and the water will distribute them. If there's not enough sanitizer in the water to kill the germs, someone may get sick.

    Borates: right! borates do provide a buffer against rising pH - makes sense.

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    The lowest FC reccomendation I recall for SWCG operation is 5% of CYA. Most SWCG manufacturers recommend CYA of 60.
    I used to run it in the 70ish range, this is my first year (first few weeks actually) at 40 thinking that since I have a cover on the pool nearly all day I probably didn't need all that CYA. Right now the SWCG is at about 25% to get me a 2FC in the evening so it seems fine at the moment but that may change as the water warms up, its 73F right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Are you losing FC overnight (I presume SWCG and ozone/UV are off)? This indicates there's some bio load in the water. Ozone is a highly effective oxidiser (that's why it's poisonous) and appears to be keeping the algae at bay but doesn't kill it all. It's not really possible to gurantee that all the water will pass through the ozonator, only the water that does gets cleaned. The chlorine is the only thing sanitizing the water in the pool. The sanitization concern is that swimmers will bring pathogens into the pool and the water will distribute them. If there's not enough sanitizer in the water to kill the germs, someone may get sick.

    Borates: right! borates do provide a buffer against rising pH - makes sense.
    Yes, over night with everything off....but I thought I read anything under 1 point drop over night was good? ....and I guess over night really means "dust til dawn" which I'm probably not really as careful about as I should be.. I usually do that test on weekends so I don't get near chlorine in my go to work cloths (which would make my darling wife very VERY angry) and that means I'm not out there until 9ish am so maybe I do the test 6pm to 9 am then the SWG comes on 10am-4pm and the FC is back to 2ish at 6pm when I check again.

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    I guess the point of the thread is this....why on earth does this thing seem to be working on my pool and no one elses?

    Maybe I'm just not measuring stuff closely enough?

    or it's just random chance when I thought I saw changes and a proper experiment would quickly show the oxonator is worthless?

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    I believe you have correctly stated several possible answers.

    I think the FIRST experiment to do is to check and see if there's actually significant quantities of ozone being emitted by your unit. I'm going to have to do some checking to see if I can come up with a method to do that, that won't cost you $100+ .

    But, if there's no ozone, or almost no ozone, being emitted -- then we can immediately rule out ozone as a cause for your perceived changes.

    There's another factor that I'm a little hesitant to mention, because it usually irritates people. Maybe the best way to do so is tell a true story from the 2nd year of my pool business.

    I was servicing a heavily used commercial pool of about 140,000 gallons. This pool was experiencing some issues with chlorine odor and eye irritation -- but it also had some mouthy regular swimmers who disapproved of the switch I'd made from bromine to chlorine, on this pool. So, with the co-operation of the pool supervisor, --speaking rather loudly so a number of pool users could hear -- I warned the guards that I needed to add some chemicals that temporarily would increase eye irritation in swimmers, and that if they had any reports of this occurring, they should just tell people it was temporary, and would be resolved in a few hours.

    I went back to the pump room with the supervisor, hung out a bit, and then publicly 'signed out' with the pool supervisor and left.

    The pool staff was absolutely inundated with complaints, that day. But, the fact was, I had done absolutely nothing to the pool!

    My point is, that with respect to issues of pool comfort and clarity, psychological factors and expectations have a HUGE and easy-to-demonstrate effect on perception. I've run similar experiments over the years, always with the same results. It takes rather careful observation to exclude this as a factor.

    BUT, I am NOT ruling out the possibility that your unit is having a functional and positive impact on your pool water as a direct result of emitted ozone. But, I want to verify it, before I accept it.

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    No doubt youíre right about the how hard it is to measure subjective items. So maybe the best thing to do is set aside anything like that for now?

    The manufacture claims that I think could be pretty easily measured are
    1)reduced CL usage
    2) reduced CC (which is liked to red eyes, skin irritation, CL smell right?)

    So maybe a test where I check CC and FC morning and night under these conditions:
    1) Ozonator on and flowing
    2) Air only flowing to pump
    3) Ozonator/air flow off

    Then measure
    1) CC and FC morning and night
    2) Record SWCG setting
    3) Record water temp?
    4) Record guestimate of % sun?
    5) Anything else?
    Maybe 1 week under each condition and see what if anything happens? Or is 1 week too short?

    Then if it looks like there was any effect we could change the test run order and repeat. Then if it still looks like something is happening we talk about why.

    Does that make any sense?

    If it sounds about right what testing stuff should I have on hand? Iíll be out of town next week but can order everything I need so Iím ready to start Sat 6/14

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    Default Re: ozinator experience

    You could really only perform such a lab with identical pools with identical history side by side with no sources of shade tested by people who are blinded to the treatment group being evaluated.

    At this point in the season, I doubt you'll find much support for this experiment here. If the only benefit is reduced chlorine consumption I doubt that purchasing, installing and operating such a system could ever break-even with the cost of chlorine delivered as bleach. CC is really only a problem for outdoor pools when under chlorinated; interesting that the marketing of these systems encourage the users to do just that.

    I've tried to warn you that this device may be causing you to operate an unsanitary pool. Please don't let your family and friends get sick.

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