Semi-transparent patches floating on water

[Jjnol]

Yep, just checked. Copper not mercury. I was not thinking about the ramifications mercury would have. My mistake. I have ZERO concerns about the SAFTEY of the pool. It completely passes the open eyes test with no burning or irritation, no smell of chlorine at all. Test strips and old fastened mix and match kits agree the water is OK. My niece and nephew (allergic to about everything) have had zero issues swimming.

I suppose I just need to let the issue go until I come across an answer. I may have a profession water chemistry done to be sure. But with all the snow this winter, and rain (more then we've ever had in the winter in NC) there is probably not a drop of original water in that pool. We just had 4 more inches day before yesterday.

I'll stop worrying about the almost not visible floaters for now. Didn't mean to kick up all this dust. Thanks for the concern.

[PoolDoc]

That's a relief. I have encountered some pretty horrible recommendations over the years by 'chemists' who were not water treatment specialists, so you really scared me. For what it's worth, mercury contamination would not necessarily have been irritating.

On the other hand, copper stains pools. If that's a concern (it doesn't bother everyone), you'll need to be cautious as you add chlorine.

Regarding your original comments:

+ CYA is one of the most critical measurements on an outdoor pool. It's very difficult to manage an outdoor pool correctly without knowing this. Most algae problems come because people do not understand that chlorine levels have to be determined based on your CYA level. Of course, some people get lucky, and do the right thing by accident. If you are naturally lucky, that's always an option.

+ Low hardness does not cause 'floaters'.

+ Dichlor and trichlor are 2 different chemicals. Both are forms of stabilized chlorine, but have somewhat different properties. The percentages you list don't correspond to undiluted products, so I'm guessing you are buying one of the diluted forms of those products. Dilutants can include borax (harmless or even helpful), magnesium sulfate (harmful to your pool), aluminum sulfate (mostly useless, but potentially harmful to concrete pools), copper sulfate (effective algaecide; effective staining agent) and so forth. You can check the "available chlorine %" to be sure. Trichlor should be 89% or higher available chlorine; dichlor should be either 56% or 61%.

+ Regarding the patches themselves, I have no idea. I can't recall ever seeing anything that would fit that description, but it doesn't sound like you could get a photograph of them. So I can't help with that.


Good luck!

[CarlD]

Is it possible the patches are some sort of debris from the falling-apart winter cover? Sometimes plastic products seem to be multi-layer with a clear layer. It's just WAG on my part (Wild-"Artistic" Guess).

[Jjnol]

That's a relief. I have encountered some pretty horrible recommendations over the years by 'chemists' who were not water treatment specialists, so you really scared me. For what it's worth, mercury contamination would not necessarily have been irritating.

On the other hand, copper stains pools. If that's a concern (it doesn't bother everyone), you'll need to be cautious as you add chlorine.

Regarding your original comments:

+ CYA is one of the most critical measurements on an outdoor pool. It's very difficult to manage an outdoor pool correctly without knowing this. Most algae problems come because people do not understand that chlorine levels have to be determined based on your CYA level. Of course, some people get lucky, and do the right thing by accident. If you are naturally lucky, that's always an option.

+ Low hardness does not cause 'floaters'.

+ Dichlor and trichlor are 2 different chemicals. Both are forms of stabilized chlorine, but have somewhat different properties. The percentages you list don't correspond to undiluted products, so I'm guessing you are buying one of the diluted forms of those products. Dilutants can include borax (harmless or even helpful), magnesium sulfate (harmful to your pool), aluminum sulfate (mostly useless, but potentially harmful to concrete pools), copper sulfate (effective algaecide; effective staining agent) and so forth. You can check the "available chlorine %" to be sure. Trichlor should be 89% or higher available chlorine; dichlor should be either 56% or 61%.

+ Regarding the patches themselves, I have no idea. I can't recall ever seeing anything that would fit that description, but it doesn't sound like you could get a photograph of them. So I can't help with that.


Good luck!

Thanks so much. Very enlightening. So cyanic acid is in essence the 'stabilizer' factor I've seen in the test kits. Mine was on the high side a few days ago when my water level was to the 1/4 of skimmer level. I was almost going to add water but we had a day of flash flood weather and I had to drain the pool from above the skimmer to 3/4 and now stabilizer looks OK. If anything I have to work at keeping the chlorine level up. Not seen the lock-in. I've never seen algae.

The previous owner was telling me he only used the copper based shock in the winter because it works very differently to create free chlorine then the other treatments. And seriously other then these little filmy patches that I've seen floating on the surface, appearance and chemistry has never been seriously out of whack since I got it cleaned up after winter.

BTW, this evening I looked and they were gone. All sucked into the skimmer. I shocked it last night.

If I can get the right light and angle I'll use the macro lens on my digital SLR to see if I can get a photo of the translucent floaters as they get sucked into the skimmer. They do come and go. It may just be some form of pollen for all I know.

It's good to know it's not the hardness. I'm not going to play with adding calcium as long as it won't cause a problem for my vinyl surfaces. Someone told me having too soft water would dry out my vinyl which did not make sense to me.

The stuff I use for shock come in 1lb packets from PoolTime and seem to work well.

And concerning the CYA it's my understanding that the tablets I put in my floating dispenser may actually be adding that to the pool. I'll check and if so try not to over do that. I thought for a while the more chlorine the better -- clearly not so.

And again thanks for the helpful reply.

Justin

[CarlD]

Thanks so much. Very enlightening. So cyanic acid is in essence the 'stabilizer' factor I've seen in the test kits. Mine was on the high side a few days ago when my water level was to the 1/4 of skimmer level. I was almost going to add water but we had a day of flash flood weather and I had to drain the pool from above the skimmer to 3/4 and now stabilizer looks OK. If anything I have to work at keeping the chlorine level up. Not seen the lock-in. I've never seen algae.

Justin, what is your CYA level now? It's actually Cyanuric or Isocyanuric acid. Yes it's stabilizer and it prevents chlorine from breaking down too fast, especially in direct sun where UV can break chlorine down in as little as 15 minutes. But it's a two edged sword as you need higher levels of chlorine to maintain sanitary water...see our "Best Guess Table" for the levels of free chlorine needed for various levels of CYA.

The previous owner was telling me he only used the copper based shock in the winter because it works very differently to create free chlorine then the other treatments. And seriously other then these little filmy patches that I've seen floating on the surface, appearance and chemistry has never been seriously out of whack since I got it cleaned up after winter.

I have no idea what he was thinking. Copper kills algae, but it doesn't sanitize your pool. If the copper kills the algae, you don't need chlorine to do it, "saving" your chlorine for sanitation. So the theory goes. But copper doesn't create Free Chlorine.

BTW, this evening I looked and they were gone. All sucked into the skimmer. I shocked it last night.

If I can get the right light and angle I'll use the macro lens on my digital SLR to see if I can get a photo of the translucent floaters as they get sucked into the skimmer. They do come and go. It may just be some form of pollen for all I know.

It's good to know it's not the hardness. I'm not going to play with adding calcium as long as it won't cause a problem for my vinyl surfaces. Someone told me having too soft water would dry out my vinyl which did not make sense to me.

Makes no sense to us, either. Your instincts are right on. Calcium is to prevent mortar, plaster and concrete from having their calcium leeched out. Period.

The stuff I use for shock come in 1lb packets from PoolTime and seem to work well.

What does it say is in it? Hard to tell if it's good or bad just from a name.

And concerning the CYA it's my understanding that the tablets I put in my floating dispenser may actually be adding that to the pool. I'll check and if so try not to over do that. I thought for a while the more chlorine the better -- clearly not so.

And again thanks for the helpful reply.

Justin

Chlorine tablets are almost always Tri-Chor tablets, and, yes, they do add CYA to your water: For every 10ppm of Free Chlorine they add 6ppm of CYA. That's good when your CYA is low, bad when it's high. They also are very acid and can and will lower your pH. Be very careful though: If they say "Double Acting" or anything by 99% tri-chlor, they are probably adding MORE copper to your water. We recommend against that.

More chlorine generally IS better, but at very high levels it can bleach liners and bathing suits...HOWEVER, if your CYA level is high, the appropriate maintenance level of Free Chlorine probably won't do that.

[Jjnol]

Justin, what is your CYA level now? It's actually Cyanuric or Isocyanuric acid. Yes it's stabilizer and it prevents chlorine from breaking down too fast, especially in direct sun where UV can break chlorine down in as little as 15 minutes. But it's a two edged sword as you need higher levels of chlorine to maintain sanitary water...see our "Best Guess Table" for the levels of free chlorine needed for various levels of CYA.



I have no idea what he was thinking. Copper kills algae, but it doesn't sanitize your pool. If the copper kills the algae, you don't need chlorine to do it, "saving" your chlorine for sanitation. So the theory goes. But copper doesn't create Free Chlorine.




Makes no sense to us, either. Your instincts are right on. Calcium is to prevent mortar, plaster and concrete from having their calcium leeched out. Period.




What does it say is in it? Hard to tell if it's good or bad just from a name.



Chlorine tablets are almost always Tri-Chor tablets, and, yes, they do add CYA to your water: For every 10ppm of Free Chlorine they add 6ppm of CYA. That's good when your CYA is low, bad when it's high. They also are very acid and can and will lower your pH. Be very careful though: If they say "Double Acting" or anything by 99% tri-chlor, they are probably adding MORE copper to your water. We recommend against that.

More chlorine generally IS better, but at very high levels it can bleach liners and bathing suits...HOWEVER, if your CYA level is high, the appropriate maintenance level of Free Chlorine probably won't do that.

CARL, awesome information. Thank you thank you. And in fairness to the previous owner of the house the conversation on copper and shocking was last November when we were doing the home inspection. Goodness knows, considering my ignorance then, what he actually said. He is a bio chemist working for Glaxo Smith-Cline pharmaceuticals just a mile from here and I'm sure he knows his stuff.

As to the tablets I am going to monitor their use and start following the directions for the size of my pool. I think it calls for three in one floater and I've just been loading the floating duck up. I don't think I've hurt anything yet but with that I'm on a bad road.

All this is very good to know. THANKS��

[Watermom]

Justin,
Just some additional information about the Taylor K2006 kit. It does NOT use color matching, so you might like it much better than the one you are currently using. You add a powder to turn a sample of water pink and then add drops of a different reagent, counting drops, until the sample turns clear. That is how your chlorine reading is determined and thus you don't have to do any color matching at all. Plus, with the K2006, you can read chlorine levels up to around 50ppm whereas with most other kits, 5ppm is as high as can be distinguished.

In regards to using the trichlor tabs, if you haven't added any yet, I would wait to do so until you find out what your CYA reading is. If you find that it is already really high (which we commonly see here on the forum), then you would probably do best to use an unstabilized form of chlorine instead of trichlor or dichlor.

(And, yes, for the forum to get a percentage, you do need to access Amazon through the link in either my or PoolDoc's signature. In fact, ANY purchases people make can earn money for the forum if you start in those links. From there you can navigate to any products that Amazon sells --- doesn't even have to be pool stuff -- and the forum still earns a little. It really helps us to be able to keep the forum afloat and online to be able to help people with their pools. So, we really appreciate when people use our link whenever they are going to order stuff from Amazon. Thanks!)

[Jjnol]

I will do it. Yeah the Taylor kit does sound better. I'm a software engineer and work for Apple and wish there were an electronic way to do all this testing. Frequency of testing for the normal owner of a pool is probably directly proportional to how easy it is to do. I sense there is an immense dislike for the litmus strips and I don't doubt they are not as precise but what they loose in exactness they make up for in ease of use. And I'm not making it up I've never gotten a reading from the regent-based kit that was at complete odds with the test slivers I've been using. The fruit of the tree has been pretty good in my case so I've not questioned the readings I'm getting.

Still I will upgrade the kit. It seems prudent and I'm pretty pedantic so it fits.

I'm pulling the floater from the pool today. It's still on the mildly chilly side here in North Carolina (very uncharacteristic for this time of year) so we've not been in the pool much so having the dispensers in there all the time considering I shock once a week is probably not needed.

So hopefully an easy question: The pool is 23,000 gallons and the shock calls for 1 pound per 10,000. I've been rounding down (the stuff is pricy). The readings after a night time shock with the filter running all night is as high as you would expect it to be for super chlorination so I assume rounding down is OK?

Justin )