x10 for valve controls

[MarkC]

http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/...Spa-Controller
has an X10 pool controller that with do the 24 volt switching for you. This thing looks like it does quite a bit and it is only a little over $100

[mrduffin]

You can also use a x-10 three-way light switch. Hook the power to the common screw (the one that is a differnt color) and the open and close wires to the other two screws (one wire on each screw).

When you operate the switch it will then open and close the valve.

[PoolDoc]

I don't like these kinds of posts . . . and here's why:

Industrial grade controls are reliable, but complex to install and configure, very expensive to pay for, and not generally available for pool use.

Controls of kinds you are discussing are generally NOT very reliable, and often end up causing endless problems. This includes most forms of pool automation, for chemistry control, remote operation, and so. (Regular mechanical time clocks are the exception, and tend to be very reliable, except for getting off time, whenever there is a power outage.)

The PoolForum and PoolSolutions are all about making pools easier and more reliable; controls like these make pools harder and less reliable . . . and LOT more expensive.

In particular, installation of consumer level devices, like the X-10 controls, virtually guarantees pool problems.

It's not that I don't understand the attraction; I probably used to be as much a gadget geek as anyone here, and the urge is still there. But, I guess you could call me a "recovering gadget geek", having been forced to give it up by all the problems I caused myself and my customers, chasing the holy grail of pool automation.

If you've got the time and resources to go with industrial grade automation and you have someone to support that automation, who's both readily available and genuinely competent, then 'go for it', with my blessings.

But otherwise . . . I believe the only valid reason to install elaborate automation on a pool is that you are doing it to satisfy your lust for geeky gadgets, that you KNOW that that's what you are doing, and you are willing to pay the price in degraded pool function. Now, of course, what you think about what you are doing is up to you.

But the reason I hate these kinds of posts, is that they led other people, who have no lust for gadgets, off in the the never-never land of automated pools, where they will waste time and money, and end up losing the easy to care for and inexpensive pool they were originally seeking.

So . . . I need to decide what to do.

If there's enough demand, I can create a new "Automation" section, so I can keep all the gadget posts off in their own little section, where they won't distract or injure other readers.

Or, otherwise, I can just move this into the "Off Topic" section.

I'll think about it and check with my moderators before doing anything.

Meanwhile, feel free to continue your discussion, but don't be surprised when it is moved elsewhere.

Best wishes,

Ben

[rrands]

OK - here is my dilemma: I am building a pool w/o a spa - a fairly generic thing, it has the pool, a waterfall, 2 fountains and 2 lights.

I want to be able to turn the lights on/off, as well as the waterfall and fountains from inside my house.

To do this, I purchased the Aqualogic P4, wireless remote module, wireless remote (the electrician wanted another $400 to run the wire for the hardwired remote). This totaled somewhere north of 1000.00. FOR BASICALLY 3 SWITCHES. Call me crazy, but I was still willing to go with this, but upon receiving the equipment and looking it over, I find that even this can't do what I want, as I only have one free relay control in the panel. For that, I need the PS-4, different remotes, yada yada yada. Price: North of $1400.00. I mean, come on - does that not seem crazy?

So, I am trying the x10 for this. Guaranteed on/off for any of these three things is not a big deal for me - if I have to hit the button for on or off more than once, I think I am better off than paying the above amounts, and with what I am controlling, there is no way to physically damage my pool. I just got all of the stuff I need for the x10, and it is < $150.00, and now I even have a keychain remote that I can take w/ me outside to do it. Not to mention that my electrical install is going to be $200 cheaper, since they are not hooking up the P4 anymore. (I am going to do the x10 install, so there is some labor investment on my part here, though...)

Do I think x10 is the answer for everything? No. Do I think is is better than 300-450 dollar light switches? You bet. I do think there is room for some automation discussion - I certainly spent many hours researching this before I decided to try it. And, maybe I will be sorry, if the x10 stuff breaks or something, but for the difference, I am certainly willing to try!


-randy

[waterbear]

If there's enough demand, I can create a new "Automation" section, so I can keep all the gadget posts off in their own little section, where they won't distract or injure other readers.

Given that many of the recent posters in the SWG section have said that they own a Goldline Aqualogic it might be a good idea to create an automation section for posts about these type of systems. From what I have seen among people I have metwith pools and talking to my Builder yesterday when he came out to fix some plumbing problems about the number of automated systems he has been installing, and the fact that Hayward(Goldline), Jandy, and Pentair make automation systems there might be a lot of interest in the topic. Just my 2 cents!

[stualden]

If there's enough demand, I can create a new "Automation" section, so I can keep all the gadget posts off in their own little section, where they won't distract or injure other readers.

Ben, I would like to cast a yes vote for an automation section. Besides being a gadget freak, I find home automation to be a fun way to keep my hand in computer programming. (Turning on the spa from the BlackBerry on the train ride home is pretty cool too.)

I certainly agree that home automation is still in the hobbyist stage and is NOT for most people. But I wouldn't be surprised if at least 100 people on this forum would like to discuss pool automation (of all sorts) in more depth.

[rrands]

MrDuffin:

I don't think the idea w/ the 3 way light switch will work - for the x10 to work, it has to be on my home wiring - the voltage I am trying to switch is 24v AC, so if I hook that up as you mentioned, the x10 transmitter has no way to talk to the switch to turn it on/off. Does that sound right, or am I missing something?

I did get this figured out - I got an x10 110v outlet and a SPDT relay w/ a 110v coil (gotta love Fry's Electronics!). I plugged the 24v AC Transformer into the unswitched outlet on the x10, and wire one leg through the relay (1 - NC, 1 - NO), and the other directly to the neutral on the valve actuator. When the x10 outlet is off, it turns the valve through the NC side of the relay. When I turn the outlet on, it turns the valve the other way through the NO side of the relay. Seems to work OK, but I just have it running in the house so far, I haven't installed it at the pool yet.

Thanks for the help!

-randy

[mrduffin]

You are correct.....I missed the part about the 24 volts.
It sounds like you have things under control....(pun intended)



[QUOTE=rrands]MrDuffin:

I don't think the idea w/ the 3 way light switch will work - for the x10 to work, it has to be on my home wiring - the voltage I am trying to switch is 24v AC, so if I hook that up as you mentioned, the x10 transmitter has no way to talk to the switch to turn it on/off. Does that sound right, or am I missing something?

[rrands]

Hey, MarkC!

I did look at that, and it seems interesting - what made me nervous is that it does not seem like I would have much control over it - it has built-in functions that you are limited to, from what I could see (couldn't find very good docs on it, though.) Do you have any more info on it, by chance?

Personally, I came across so many threads in research for this that I can't believe that someone doesn't make something pre-configured to do what I am after. I did get a solution, but I would have liked something more plug-n-play.


Thanks for the help!

http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/...Spa-Controller
has an X10 pool controller that with do the 24 volt switching for you. This thing looks like it does quite a bit and it is only a little over $100

[MarkC]

Hey Ben, Sorry if I hit a nerve. I was just answering a question with some info. that I had found on the web regarding X10 controllers. I am in agreement with you regarding simple pool controls. I only use an X10 control to turn on my pool light from inside the house. All my other functions are the mechanical timer devices. My pool is pretty simple no spa. I also go low tech to dose my chlorine either with a floater when my stabilizer levels are low enough or manually.