Do these things work?

[Bosch232]

I have an acquaintance who has one of these.
http://www.zodiacpoolsystems.com/Pro...2-Express.aspx

What do they do?

[kelemvor]

They add copper and silver ions to the water. Both poor sanitizers, they can't kill bacteria and viruses fast enough to keep people safe. I believe they generally do well enough to keep algae at bay. Copper also stains pools and turns hair green in sufficient concentration. Not only that, if you decide you later don't like it - metals are difficult and expensive to remove.

Here's a post by pooldoc with a little more detail: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...4636#post64636

1. In the past, Nature2, Claritec and Fountainhead (various names / companies associated with the 'technology' have engaged in highly deceptive marketing, and made various bogus (Fountainhead) or meaningless (Nature2) claims for the units.

2. Last time I checked (4 years ago) Nature2 was avoiding some of the bogus claims, and had replaced them with meaningless -- but impressive sounding -- claims for the unit.

3. But some dealers are still using some of the old bogus claims. Here's an example I grabbed today from PoolCenter.com:

"The purifier precisely directs water flow through a six-month, replaceable cartridge. Inside, a non-electrical reaction "activates" oxygen by breaking the molecule into its nascent atoms, atomic oxygen - one of Earth's most powerful sanitizers, to kill bacteria, viruses and algae. As if that weren't enough, the Purifier also releases trace amounts of natural, algaestatic and bactericidal minerals into the pool to help prevent bacteria and algae growth."
http://www.poolcenter.com/natr2faq.htm

"Activated oxygen" is one of those chemically meaningless, but impressive sounding terms that's been associated for years with various brands of pool industry snake oil.

4. However, Nature2 is now making EPA sanitizer claims. Those are pretty strictly regulated, so I'm going to have to check them out. In the past, companies have done this by adding something (their MAGIC ingredient) to sufficient chlorine to pass EPA standards alone. They then have to do a sales pitch dance to claim that it's MAGIC + chlorine, rather than chlorine alone that does the trick, without legally making that claim.

5. BUT -- and this is a big BUT -- Nature2 is making Nature2 + MPS (Oxone, potassium monopersulfate) sanitizer claims. I'm going to have find and read these. I'm hoping Richard (Chem Geek) has them. However, until I do, I won't be able to reject Nature2 quite as wholeheartedly as I have in the past.

6. Finally, I have never -- to date -- encountered any valid (or even apparently valid) test evidence that Nature2 'works' in any sense important to a pool owner or user. BritinUSA's evidence is not what it seems (even to him) -- but you'll have to wade through the China Shop stuff for that.

7. BritinUSA is NOT following Nature2's recipe for sanitation. That requires 0.5 ppm FC at ALL times. In practice, you can't maintain 0.5 FC 24/7, without having it higher much of the time.
Nature2 manual attached - downloaded from http://www.nature2.com/files/TL2901_...ers_Manual.pdf 26Jun2010.

OK, that's what I know.

Now, to what I think. It's my opinion that Zodiac is determined to market Nature2 successfully, and that that determination is entirely independent of whether it actually works.

[Charlie_R]

In a word, no. Those add metals to your water, and do a poor job of sanitation. They will keep you pool LOOKING clear, but what you can't see CAN hurt you.

Aside from that, after a few years of use, most generally you end up removing and going to "normal" chlorine based sanitation/algae prevention, as practiced here with the BBB method.

[waterbear]

They are great money makers for dealers (I used to sell them, I know) but they really don't do much good (IMHO, none at all) and can actually cause pool water that is marginal to 'go south' easier than if properly sanitized in the first place.

[chem geek]

They are correct that the copper ions will inhibit algae growth so that will let you operate at a lower FC/CYA ratio than you would otherwise need to prevent such growth, but the risk is that if the copper ion level gets too high or the pH gets too high, you can get copper metal staining, especially on plaster and fiberglass surfaces (less risk with vinyl) and people with blond hair can get a greenish tint in their hair.

Chlorine alone can prevent algae growth, disinfect the pool, and oxidize some bather waste so there is no need for other products. If one really, really wants to operate at a lower active chlorine level, then there are many algaecide alternatives other than copper ions. Phosphate removers sort of work but are expensive and temporarily cloud the pool. Linear quat algaecides can foam. Polyquat 60 is the only one we'd recommend because it doesn't foam and more slowly breaks down from chlorine though it is more expensive than linear quat algaecides. Again, this isn't needed unless you are absolutely set on having a lower FC/CYA ratio.

Note that the minimum FC/CYA ratio proposed on this forum, that is roughly 7.5%, has the same active chlorine level as an FC of only 0.07 ppm with no CYA so I don't know why you'd want to get much lower than that for extra cost.

[Bosch232]

Thanks for all the info. I don't think I'll be following my colleague's footsteps.