Brown stains spreading

[mbar]

Smallpooldad is right with all of his information, and has dealt with stains.

On the other hand, if you don't want to do all that he has gone through, or don't have as much staining as he did, there is a way to do it without draining and refilling.

You will need about a half to one pound of ascorbic acid per 10,000 gal. I like to go lighter on it and see if all the stain goes away with as little as possible, because as smallpooldad says the ascorbic acid will eat chlorine up really fast.

You need to get your chlorine as close to 0 as you can (there are products that do this). You can buy the ascorbic acid from the internet - I posted two links above. You don't need food grade, I checked. I have used the ascorbic acid from the first link, but the second link sells it in smaller quantities.

Put the filter on circulate.
Use a cup and go around the perimeter of the pool and drop it down the sides as you go.
Let the ascorbic acid circulate for 1/2 hour. You will be amazed how the stain just disappears before your eyes.

If the stain is not all gone, leave the filter in circulate and add more ascorbic acid close to where you still see stain. Leave it in circulate until all of the stain is gone. (add more ascorbic acid if it circulates for 1/2 hour and there is still stain)

When the stain is gone, add enough sequestering agent for the volume of your pool - more is better than not enough.

Put the filter back on filter and leave it on 24/7.

The ascorbic acid will bring your ph down, after 24 hours you can start to bring up your ph - be prepared it will take a lot of Borax, but make sure you test in between, because you don't want to go any higher than 7.2. After 48 hours you can start to bring up your chlorine. You want to do this slowly. It will take a lot of chlorine - I prefer to use bleach only at this time, and try to take it up to your minimum chlorine for your cya according to the "best guess chart" Do not shock! Do not shock for at least 2 weeks! Make sure you keep your ph low for (7.2) for a week or two - it won't be hard becuase the ascorbic acid will help it stay low. Once your chlorine starts to hold, it means that you have used up the ascorbic acid in the water and it will be easy to rebalance the pool back to your regular perameters.

If you add fill water, add through your skimmer. If you have a DE or sand filter you can put a chlorine puck in your skimmer 48 hours after the ascorbic acid treatment.
Always keep the minimum amount of sequestering agent in the water. If you see stain start to come back, drop your ph back down to 7.2 and add a heavy dose of sequestering agent - it will probably lift the stain off without doing another ascorbic acid treatment

Your water may cloud when you do the initial treatment.

[smallpooldad]

If you do eventually go the muriatic acid wash route and I hope not the following advice given to me by "A Good Pool Maintenance Person" might help avoid a serious problem.

He stated that as the acid is very strong it is a good idea to put soda ash or borax in the bottom part of the pool with water to neutralize it. It could possibly burn out the bottom of your pool with such a concentration of acid. Not a bad idea. Personally I have never tried this but this person stated they had seen pools cleaned this way and the gunite was nearly completely eaten away - scary.

Short story on Borax, 16 years ago I visited the mine which if I remember correctly is in or around Death Valley, it is huge, four story dump trucks look like little toys even the massive dynamiting explosions just appear as puffs of smoke. Worth visiting unless the following happens. We went in July and the temperature was around 115 F. We rode in a bus, upon leaving the mine to return to LA the air-conditioning in the bus broke down, some of the persons from the local Rotary Club were older than 75 and some near 90, they were not in good shape. So most of the afternoon and evening were spent at a hospital that was not too close. So do not go there unless you have A1 air-conditioning, are travelling in Mariah Carey's personal road bus, or have a stretch limo with a refrigerated pool in the back.

Any thoughts on the soda ash borax idea from other members would be helpful.

And finally remember "You can take the iron out the walls but you will never take the iron out of the water." Someone, I think it was my mother, said something like that about a cute girlfriend I had when I was young. It took me 40 years to find out she was right but now all I have to worry about is iron.

[waterbear]

You can get ascorbic acid which is vitamin C, or there are other products that use oxcylic acid? I am not sure if that is the right spelling.

Marie, very close...oxalic acid is the correct spelling. And ascorbic acid is less toxic so it is my first choice also.

[cmcq]

It has taken me a while to get back to this as I've been travelling, had to order the acid, etc. but I'm now ready to do the acid treatment. Good news is the stains haven't gotten worse. I have a couple of questions before I start.

First, I assume the metal, stain and scale out product I tried first is a stain remover, not a sequestering agent. Is that correct? If so, do I need to get jack's magic or sequasol as was descrbed earlier in this thread? If not, is what I added still active in the water or would I need to add more. (BTW, I have backwashed since I added it).

Second, the chlorine is low enough for the treatment but I have a SWG. Should I turn it completely off for the first 48 hours then back on (how high?)

Third, how long do you have to wait before you can swim?

Thanks.

[mbar]

The stain and scale remover is a sequesterant. Check on the bottle and make sure you put enough in the water, not enough is not good, too much won't hurt anything. You may want to add another bottle of it when you do the treatment. I would turn the swg off for the 48 hours, then put it back on low. You want to bring your chlorine up slowly after all the stain is gone. I swam in my pool after 24 hours. I'm still alive, ha, ha. It should be fine to swim in the next day. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have, good luck!

[grangerhj]

If you swam the next day- what was your chlorine level? Had you lowered to 0 prior to adding the ascorbic acid? How soon afterward do you begin adding chlorine?

I have a brown stain all over pool- I use well water to fill my pool that has high iron count. I have used both Stain Out and Metal Out. The stain goes away but is back with in a week. Any suggestions?

I am battling a high CYA (135) and am using Bleach about 174 ounces/day to maintain chlorine level between 7-10ppm Water is crystal clear.

[mbar]

The chlorine was at 0 when I swam, but I must say I only jumped in to cool myself off - didn't do any real swimming. You can always put polyquat in the water if you are afraid of an algae bloom while doing a stain treatment. The only thing I can think of is to put more sequesterant in than the bottle says. Keep your ph at the low level - 7.2. The green tint to the water may be that the walls of the pool are stained slightly yellow, which yellow and blue can make the water appear green. The only way to get rid of the stain that doesn't come off with the sequeserant is to do a stain treatment with ascorbic acid or oxillac acid. With a cya of 135, you must keep your chlorine between 8ppms and 15ppms. Your shock level will be 25ppms. Don't shock your pool with high ph - high ph with high chlorine will precipitate the metals out of the water onto the surface of the pool, unless you have enough sequeserant to bind to all the metal that is in the water.

[TheNewPoolGuy]

You will probably have to do a stain treatment. You are using a product that is probably a sequestering agent - it will bind with the metals that are suspended in the water, but if the stains are embedded, they will not lift off with just the sequesterant. You can get ascorbic acid which is vitamin C, or there are other products that use oxcylic acid? I am not sure if that is the right spelling. I always use the ascorbic as it is the most mild. Here is a link to buying it cheaper than the regular pool products.

http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid

http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ascorbic_Acid.htm

If you chose to do this treatment, I can give you directions on how to use it.

Marie:

I have a similar problem. I have an AG Doughboy 12' X 20' pool, 8,200 gallons. I live 15 miles West of New Orleans. I have been fighting staining problems since Hurricane Katrina. My readings are:

FC - 3.0
TC - 3.0
PH - 7.5
CH - 160
Alk - 130
CYA - 50

I have brown stains that are on the bottom of the liner. I have tried a product called Pool Stain Treat by United Chemicals. The active ingredient is Oxalic Acid. I was told to add one quart of EZ-CHLOR, Metal Magnet. I was told to shut down the pump long enough to have the water completely idle. Mix 1 pound Pool Stain Treat to 4 gallons water, mix well. Then, get a 16 ounce cup and gently pour the mixture into the pool over where the stains are. The mixture is heavier than the pool water, and you can see it going to the bottom. When it hits the stain, most of the stain is removed and the water gets cloudy. You continue this process until all the mixture is gone. By the time you finish, the pool is cloudy and you will have to start the pump and shock pool. I used 2 lbs of the Pool Stain Treat and it worked well. I still have some stains and I am waiting for the ascorbic acid I ordered. I am told that you are suppose to use the same process with the ascorbic acid. I hope thjis helps. If you have any other ideas to help me reomove the rest of my stains, give another post. I am ordering the new kit, PS234 and hoping to run all my own samples.

[mbar]

When I used the ascorbic acid I didn't dilute it in water. I just poured the ascorbic acid down the walls of the pool, concentrate more where you see stain. You will probably need less than a pound. You can shut the filter off, or leave it on - the most important thing is to get a sequestering agent in the water, so that when the stain lifts off the surface of the pool and goes into solution, the sequesterant will hold it in suspension. After an ascorbic acid treatment you DO NOT shock your pool for 2 weeks.
1. Pour ascorbic acid down the sides of pool
2. Let water circulate for 1/2 hour
3. Pour in enough sequestering agent for the gal size of your pool (I would use a bottle of something like metal free, sequasol, or Jacks Magic.
4. Let the filter run 24/7
5. The next day check ph, add borax to take it back up to 7. to 7.2 (no higher)
6. After 48 hours start to raise chlorine slowly. It will be hard to get the water to hold chlorine because the chlorine will eat up the ascorbic acid that is in the water.
Your alkalinity is a little high, but the ascorbic acid may take it down. Make sure you check it also. If it is too low, you can add baking soda to bring your ph and alk up. Add small amounts and check at 2 hour intervals. With a cya of 50, you can take your chlorine up to 6, but not higher for 2 weeks. If you see stain start to reappear, then take your ph back down to 7 and add more sequesterant. Keep me informed, and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[cmcq]

The stain treatment worked like a charm, but I have a follow up question.

I added the acid (1.5 lbs for a 22k pool) and sequestering agent on Sunday afternoon and let the filter run as described. I checked the ph last night (Monday) and it was steady at 7.2. I'm in Northern Virginia and it has been raining a couple of inches a day for a few few days so I'm not sure if the rain water helped raise the ph, but I did not have to add anything to raise it.

I checked the pool again this morning. The ph remained at 7.2 and the the chlorine was 0 (as expected), but the water is very cloudy and the pump pressure is very high (baseline is around 20 but pump is currently at 35). I couldn't backwash before work this a.m. and didn't want to run the pump all day with the pressure that high so I turned the pump off until I can backwash today after work. Is there anything about the stain treatment and sequestering agent that would affect the pressure in the filter that much? Also, with the cloudiness of the water, am I safe to re-start my SWG and to start raising the chorline level?