Alum, borax, etc.

[PoolDoc]

With adequate filtration and circulation, clarifiers and flocculants usually aren't a big help. But, over 2/3 of pools do NOT have adequate filtration and circulation.

Also, flocs can help speed clean up of pools with dead algae, and some (PAA) can remove phosphates and metals.

The problem is that some, like alum, are very 'twitchy'. Potable water plants run continuous 'jar testing' to allow them tailor their alum + other floc blends to the conditions of the entering water. But, pool owners can't do that.

PAA is not nearly so twitchy, but I haven't ID'd a reliable source, packaging a known concentration.

[paulvzo]

Spensar, I need alum for the reason Ben mentions: Lots of dead algae. For seven months of the year I don't use the pool and I cannot afford to keep it chlorinated on my limited income. Plus, I get LOTS of plant and even some animal biomatter in the water, just the location. There's no way to filter this mass of slime and leaves, etc. So, alum to the rescue.

I use four or five cups broadcast over the pool and in about two days it's ready to scoop out the big stuff and then vacuum to discharge for the dead algae and dirt.

[PoolDoc]

Nothing wrong with that; you're lucky it works that well for you, but many times luck is better than expertise.

What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.

I've never personally tried to floc live goo -- it's worth an experiment. But at present I have no confidence that even 1/3 of the people who followed such advice would get similar results.

Also, less than 1/2 the people here have a working vacuum system . . .

[Spensar]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

[paulvzo]

It's like any other pool tool. It might be right, it might not be.

The last two summers I massively chlorinated, I floculated, I brush everything to the dep end to rot or whatever. This year I removed the whatevers.

Alum has its place. And its cheapest at taxidermy supply houses.

[waterbear]

Sodium percarbonate is another way to clear a badly fouled pool. It makes everything float so it is easy to scoop out and oxidized the sustpended stuff to clear the water. It does raise pH so hyou need to add acid with it to keep the pH in line.

[PoolDoc]

This IS a topic that we need to explore.

The routine we've suggested -- massive chlorine; massive cleaning -- has the virtue of always working, but the disadvantage of being difficult and expensive.

However, the other methods -- as best I can tell -- are not refined enough to produce consistent results. How can we improve that?

[paulvzo]

Sodium percarbonate is another way to clear a badly fouled pool. It makes everything float so it is easy to scoop out and oxidized the sustpended stuff to clear the water. It does raise pH so hyou need to add acid with it to keep the pH in line.

That's an interesting one. Percarbonate is the principle ingredient in color safe bleaches. (The other principle ingredient is another old pool friend, sodium carbonate.) I remember seeing it at a chemicals store I've used for photo chems: http://www.chemistrystore.com/search...+to+Search.y=0

It sure would be a lot easier to scoop off the top than the bottom, like with alum!

Any info on dosages, downsides?

[waterbear]

That's an interesting one. Percarbonate is the principle ingredient in color safe bleaches. (The other principle ingredient is another old pool friend, sodium carbonate.) I remember seeing it at a chemicals store I've used for photo chems: http://www.chemistrystore.com/search...+to+Search.y=0

It sure would be a lot easier to scoop off the top than the bottom, like with alum!

Any info on dosages, downsides?

It's actually the main ingredient in oxyclean (at least the original one) and when dissolved in water forms sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxoide.l Most oxygen bleaches are also persulfates and perborates, however.

To use sodium percarbonate on a badly fouled pool (in other words, a swamp with lots of stuff on the bottom!) broadcast 10 lbs per 100O gallons with pump OFF. Immediately broadcast 3/4 lbs dry acid per 1000 gallons to keep pH in line (since the pump is off using muriatic acid is trickly as it won't disperse thoughout the water. As debris floats to the top skim it out. When debris floating to top stops run pump for 24 to 48 hours, clean filter, and vacuum if needed. If pool is not clear repeat process. Because of the amount of percarbonate and dry acid needed this is not a cheap process but is it a fast process compared to trying to clear the pool with just chlorine. Percarbonate can also be used to convert a biguanide pool to chlorine at a rate of about 5 lbs per 10 k gallons ( or 1/2 lb per 1000 gallons) and the dry acid si not needed but pH will need to be adjusted afterward when the chloirne is added once the biguanide is fully oxidized and the filter medium changed out.

[paulvzo]

What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.

Never meant as advice that everyone should partake of. Maybe I just presume incorrectly that people can look at a posting and figure out if it is meant for them or not. Lesseeee......"vacuum to discharge"......oh, wait I don't have a vacuum, maybe I shouldn't do this.

I do understand, I think, that as moderator you can catch a lot of flack for someone who does stupid things based on something you said. But then, that's life, you can't fix stupid. We've already devolved into the idiocracy, in my curmudgeonly opinion.