Results of Ascorbic Acid Treatment for Stains

[JimK]

.... HEDP is not cheap at quantities I am have used - need to try something different- maybe some fill dirt and a dump truck.......LOL!!

Yeah, I probably spent $500+ when dealing with my stain problem.

[PoolDoc]

No stains, but the cloudiness that began on Wednesday has gotten only slightly better - can barely see drain.

Water is clear - cloudiness cleared up within 4 days or so.

Cookieman, can you tell me what triggered the cloudiness, or what event immediately preceded the cloudiness?

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Also, I'd overlooked your CH readings; 80 - 90 CH would NOT be a problem with HEDP.

Here's what I've begun to wonder. Is it possible that the stains have penetrated fairly deeply into your plaster, and that the AA is de-colorizing them, but that the souble mix is not actually being removed from the plaster?

If that's the case, you can test in two ways.

FIRST: take some chlorine and place it directly on an area where the stains recur, but that is presently clear of stains. If the stains are re-occurring from metal in the water, the physical presence of the chlorine will prevent that. But if the stains are from metal IN the plaster, the chlorine tab should pretty quickly cause those stains to re-appear. If you can get a cal hypo tab or bag of shock that would be preferable. Trichlor may be acidic enough to avoid re-forming the stain, in spite of the high chlorine level. Regardless of type of chlorine, do not leave it sitting on the plaster too long.

SECOND: if the problem is a soluble copper mix, you should be able to wash it out. If you can, while the chlorine is low, and the HEDP high, re-aim a return eyeball to direct a stream of water toward a location where the stains recur. After 24 hours or so, raise the chlorine level, and see if they re-appear.

Finally, if you are not already doing so, run your pump 24/7.

[Cookieman]

Pool has a vinyl liner with fiberglass steps, so there is no plaster in the pool. Pump has been running 24/7 since I first attempted the AA method in mid July. The steps are the first place I notice any stain reappearance, and I do have a return directed to the steps mostly to move leaves toward the skimmer.

I believe the cloudiness originally began with the double dose of the HEDP after AA cleared the stains. I had gotten feedback that I may not have used enough HEDP on the first try. Cloudiness cleared in about 4 days. Water clarity now is very good. Still keeping ph low at 7.0.

[PoolDoc]

Sorry about the plaster mistake.

1. Do you know which brand HEDP you added, and how much you put in, when the cloudiness occurred?

2. Can you put a handful of chlorine powder on the steps, and see if that forces a stain re-appearance?

[Cookieman]

I used 5 quarts of the Kem-Tek Metal Eliminator from Amazon the procedure recommended. Normal dose per bottle instructions is 2.5 qts. This was only time any of the the HEDP products produced any cloudiness, but other additions have been recommended dose or maintenance dose. I have also used Jack's Magic Pink Stuff - dosage is same as KemTek.

I can try this, but will have to find the chorine powder. Get this as Pool Store? Also been thinking about opening up the 1.0 PPM Culator that has been in skimmer for a month to see if ball color will indicate what metal it may be picking up. Still have the 4.5 in there from a couple of weeks ago. These don't seem to be doing much for me. Thoughts?

[PoolDoc]

I have also used Jack's Magic Pink Stuff - dosage is same as KemTek.

That's very puzzling to me. None of the products actually list the % HEDP, but the Pink Stuff has a specific gravity that corresponds to 60% HEDP, and the KemTek product has a specific gravity that corresponds to 20% HEDP. I'm going to need to do some testing of those directly, but I'll wait till next spring, since they can change formulation without notice.

I can try this, but will have to find the chorine powder. Get this as Pool Store?

Also been thinking about opening up the 1.0 PPM Culator that has been in skimmer for a month to see if ball color will indicate what metal it may be picking up. Still have the 4.5 in there from a couple of weeks ago. These don't seem to be doing much for me.

Don't open them; you can see color through the bag when they are wet. If they aren't doing anything, and you are circulating 24/7, that pretty definitively indicates there are not metals in the water.

Of course the trick is to get the stains dissolved and INTO the water, where the CuLator can grab the metal. It sounds like in your case, the stains may have dissolved, but never migrated into the water. That's not an outcome I'd have expected.

It would be possible to try using ascorbic acid, muriatic acid, and STMP (a phosphate detergent), to lower the pH, dissolve the metals and get them INTO the pool water. But, you'd end up with some ferocious phosphate levels later, and I'm not sure how much that would increase your pool's tendency to get algae. PLUS, I'm not sure how well it would work.

You could try it on a spot basis.

Another possibility, especially since the stains are on your steps, would be to actually scrub a spot on the steps with a wash rag saturated in an AA solution. It's possible that that approach would actually end up with the metals IN the pool water.

. . . As you can tell, I don't know!

Changing direction a bit, I don't know if you are in the market for a waterproof sport camera, but if you are, I'd love it if you got one, took pictures, and posted them. I've got this camera on order:

Pentax Optio WG-2

but haven't tested it myself yet. However it's supposed to do especially well with macro photos, since it has a built in LED ring light. Here are some reviews:
2012: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-6501_7-57428068-95/
2011: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q311...mpactgrouptest

So . . . if you think you might be getting a camera like that anytime soon, I love to encourage you to get it before you close your pool, and take pictures.

[Cookieman]

Sorry for the delay responding, but had a lot going on lately. Looks like a nice camera, but I am going to invest in determining what will work on my staining problems. Thanks anyway.