Results of Ascorbic Acid Treatment for Stains

[JimK]

I gather that salt from some sources introduces iron into pool water, and it wouldn't take much iron, per bag, to have a problem by the time you add 10 bags.

I guess a prudent, low risk, step would be to add a small dose of HEDP along with any major dose of salt, and to keep a Culator in the skimmer (under a skimmer sock) for a week or so after adding salt.

Thanks Ben.

It looks like my lower dose of HEDP is working, so I'll re-evaluate the cost of just maintaining a lower level of HEDP vs. only adding HEDP when adding salt plus the cost of the Culator + skimmer socks (I have questions about these which I'll post in a new thread as to not hijack this thread).

[Cookieman]

I tried process again putting in the Ascorbic Acid and HEDP last Monday, 7/31. Put in more HEDP - double dose. Put in 4.5 Culator. Have kept PH at 7.0 all week. No stains, but the cloudiness that began on Wednesday has gotten only slightly better - can barely see drain. My FC goes between 0 and .5. I have only been adding no more than 1-1.5 gal 1-2 times per day for fear of raising too fast or putting in too much at one time and producing stains. Is it ok to add more bleach at a quicker pace? Using Poyquat to prevent the algae while FC low. Will cloudiness eventually clear on its own or do I need to take action? Filter running 24/7. Also put in a maint dose of HEDP today - 1 week after initial dose.

[PoolDoc]

Do you know what your calcium hardness levels were, before you started this process? What are they, now?

[Cookieman]

80 before procedure and 80 now. Never could get sample to turn red - only purple. Took 8 drops to get it to turn blue.

[PoolDoc]

Took 8 drops to get it to turn blue.

Watch this video, and retest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmpS-...ature=youtu.be

The rest of the videos are here: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?17157

[Cookieman]

Video was on testing TA. I have no issues with TA test and as of a few days ago it was 60. I have not tried to move it up much for fear of moving PH up from 7.0 while trying to get chlorine up and water balanced. The calcium hardness test was the one in which I could not get to turn red ( kit says it will turn red if calcium hardness present) after adding the 5 drops of R0011. The 80/80 represents the calcium hardness - 8 drops of R0012 to turn sample from purple to blue.

[PoolDoc]

Sorry; watch the CH interferences video.

I'm running into a sort of Catch-22 situation with HEDP and calcium. HEDP also can bind with calcium, and become unavailable for other 'work'. But you can't just increase the HEDP dose, since high enough levels will precipitate colloidal calcium phosphonate that is very difficult to filter.

We need to know what your CH levels are.

[Cookieman]

CH is 90
I cannot get to minimum FC level of 3.0 without stains returning. I added the HEDP each time stains began to return (2.5 qts), but no help. So I sprinkle a few ounces (by volume) of ascorbic acid to keep them from getting too bad. Since the second attempt at the stains began on July 31, I have used 12 qts of HEDP ( Kem Tek or Jacks Pink Stuff), and 18 gallons of bleach. I have added bleach slowly with no one time add exceeding 1 gallon (only when FC=0). Most bleach additions are 1/2 gallon a day or two times per day. Water is clear - cloudiness cleared up within 4 days or so. Stains come back every 3-4 days as FC approached 3.0 or higher. HEDP is not cheap at quantities I am have used - need to try something different- maybe some fill dirt and a dump truck.......LOL!!

[JimK]

.... HEDP is not cheap at quantities I am have used - need to try something different- maybe some fill dirt and a dump truck.......LOL!!

Yeah, I probably spent $500+ when dealing with my stain problem.

[PoolDoc]

No stains, but the cloudiness that began on Wednesday has gotten only slightly better - can barely see drain.

Water is clear - cloudiness cleared up within 4 days or so.

Cookieman, can you tell me what triggered the cloudiness, or what event immediately preceded the cloudiness?

----

Also, I'd overlooked your CH readings; 80 - 90 CH would NOT be a problem with HEDP.

Here's what I've begun to wonder. Is it possible that the stains have penetrated fairly deeply into your plaster, and that the AA is de-colorizing them, but that the souble mix is not actually being removed from the plaster?

If that's the case, you can test in two ways.

FIRST: take some chlorine and place it directly on an area where the stains recur, but that is presently clear of stains. If the stains are re-occurring from metal in the water, the physical presence of the chlorine will prevent that. But if the stains are from metal IN the plaster, the chlorine tab should pretty quickly cause those stains to re-appear. If you can get a cal hypo tab or bag of shock that would be preferable. Trichlor may be acidic enough to avoid re-forming the stain, in spite of the high chlorine level. Regardless of type of chlorine, do not leave it sitting on the plaster too long.

SECOND: if the problem is a soluble copper mix, you should be able to wash it out. If you can, while the chlorine is low, and the HEDP high, re-aim a return eyeball to direct a stream of water toward a location where the stains recur. After 24 hours or so, raise the chlorine level, and see if they re-appear.

Finally, if you are not already doing so, run your pump 24/7.