White splotches, spots, and lines (stains/fading?) in 3 year old fiberglass pool

[PoolDoc]

"If the problem is more severe, or the pool has been left with a high PH level for an extended time, the calcium deposits will combine with the chlorine in the pool and create a salt called Calcium Chloride. The salt will attach itself to the pool surfaces and cause areas of the gelcoat to look white. There are two stages of this advanced calcium chloride. The first, and easier to treat, stage is less advanced. If the gelcoat returns to normal when it’s hydrated (or just wet), then you can treat it using the same chemical solution as the less sever case mentioned above. However, it will take up to 6 months for the treatment to totally dissolve the calcium chloride. Due to the time this takes, and the fact that the water will be very acidic in this time, we recommend that this treatment be done in the off season. If, perchance, the salt deposits are visible even when they’re hydrated, the treatment is not as easy. An effective chemical treatment hasn’t been found or developed so the recommended solution is to remove the salt is to buff and polish the surface to return it to its previous condition."

Your manufacturer is full of it. Calcium chloride is an EXTREMELY soluble material: at pool temperatures you can dissolve a cup of granular calcium chloride (sold in the pool trade as "calcium increaser) in a cup of water! There is no possible way it could coat your pool.

I don't know whether your manufacturer's tech guys are dishonest, or simply really, really ignorant.

Can you email me (poolforum@gmail.com) the specifics of your problem . . . and a link to the tech bulletin? Meanwhile, I'm going to as Waterbear (who has some knowledge of fiberglass) and Chem_Geek (who knows chemistry) to take a look.

Sorry for your bad luck!

[waterbear]

Is your pools gelcoat by any chance blue? Blue fades. Period. It can happen in as little as 2 or 3 years if your pool get a lot of sun. That is why someof the fiberglass pool manufacturers don't warranty the blue gelcoat for very long.

There are some pics on this page:
http://www.thefiberglasspooldepot.co...iberglass-Pool
As Pooldoc said, Calcium chloride is extremely soluble in water and other calcium scales (carbonate, silicate or phosphate) will feel rough. Only the first will respond well to acid. The others are more difficult to remove.

[viking]

Ben,
My gosh! Thanks for the response....How can they possibly make these claims? How frustrating! Our patience is running very thin. They offered to send someone out to take a look again. We were not impressed with the first guy...but we need to make sure we don't do further damage. I think I will ask for their recommendations in writing.
I emailed the specifics to you along with two links that belong to dealers who have posted the information that was released from the manufacturer.
To think we evaluated so many companies before deciding on this one! I'm hoping we can solve our problem without creating more problems!
Thanks so very much!
P.S. I am hoping to use your no nonsense methods in maintaining our pool water once we figure this out. I am purchasing the K2006 kit through your link on Amazon today!

[viking]

Waterbear,
Yes, our gelcoat is blue. We did lots of homework on manufacturers and warranties. Chose the one we THOUGHT was superior quality and best warranty....even looked at other installed pools with the same color (newer ones). Ours has a 15 year warranty on gelcoat fading, etc. and 25 year on shell. Our pool is only 2 years old. They are claiming it is a water quality issue....which I might add they claimed happened to their very own display pool! Are these gelcoats that sensitive? We thought our water for the most part was fairly balanced and corrected it when it was off. I just read where they noted the ph should be 7.2-7.4...it will scale above this! Really?? 7.4??

Thanks for your help! It is greatly appreciated. This is now beyond frustrating.

[viking]

Waterbear,

I understand that it will fade, but you would expect that to be more uniform and slowly (we looked into that before purchasing....studied their fade resistant studies, etc.). This is different...very white spots against original darker color. (Note: At first we though it was just fading, but we knew it shouldn't happen so quickly and in such suspicious patterns...called the manufacturer as soon as we saw there was a problem, which really seemed to have happened suddenly Without hesitation, they claimed it was scaling... even though the stains were very smooth...no rough spots at all.)
They continue to say it is scaling and they claim scaling can be smooth.

Thanks so much!!!

[viking]

You mentioned it will feel rough. What I have is smooth. I looked at the pics. The manufacturer mentioned on the site and the video (which has been removed) is who I am dealing with. Do you think it's possible that I have a gelcoat issue? They want us to buff it off.... I'm wondering if I this will remove some of the gelcoat ...which will consequently remove the white stains which they claim may be CaCl on the gelcoat.

[chem geek]

Calcium chloride dissolves in water. It is the ingredient in products that increase Calcium Hardness (CH). It has a solubility in water (at 20ºC which is 68ºF) of 745 g/L which is 745,000 mg/L. Also, this solubility would not change significantly with pH. For the manufacturer to say that the calcium fell out of solution due to high pH but then to say that the scale is calcium chloride instead of calcium carbonate is just nutty.

Calcium carbonate scale is only rough to the touch if such scale is formed quickly. If it is formed slowly over time, then it can be smooth to the touch and be harder to remove, just like the regular calcium carbonate that is in plaster (you CAN remove it, of course, just as you can dissolve plaster, but becomes trickier). You may need to be a member of PGN to see this link, but it contains useful info and photos about scaling. See also this article on staining of fiberglass including scale from calcium, but this is calcium carbonate (sometimes combined with other metals to cause coloration).

Since your test data, including "TH" for total hardness, did not come from your own testing, then I wouldn't trust it. It's just more likely that your CH and TA were moderately high, but that the pH went much higher for an extended period of time. See this thread for another example of scale on fiberglass. You really need to get your own proper test kit -- the Taylor K-2006 (NOT K-2005).

[viking]

Chem Geek,

Thanks for the reply. Your opinion is valued; your wealth of knowledge is impressive. I will research the sites that you have provided. I had already read through the "thread" that you linked a couple nights ago. Some of the specific details are confusing as far as the treatment plan. (This is all new to me.)

I just ordered the K-2006 through a link provided on this forum. Thanks for that advice!

Is there anyway that you can provide ideal ranges (ph, TA, TH, CYA, TC?....I understand that TC is relative to CYA) for the type pool that I have, SWCG colored FB? I want to be confidant that I am properly balancing the water. (I am getting conflicting numbers from different sources.) Also, what do you think about the manufacturer stating that a ph above 7.4 will result in scaling?

I need to note that we do have a heater plumbed to both pool and spa (I worry about damage resulting from scaling treatment...I never even knew that could be problematic until doing my own research on this site), and we just installed a pool cooler to keep the pool temp down, which should help with maintenance as well, I hope.

Thanks thanks thanks!!!! I look forward to your response.

[PoolDoc]

What sort of "pool cooler" do you have?

I've made some, and seen some others made, but never seen one sold commercially.

[viking]

I have a Glacier pool cooler GPC210 for 30K gallon pool:[URL="http://www.glacierpoolcoolers.com"]

My pool is 20K gallons, but we purchased the step above the 20K cooler because of the pool's dark color. Temps have been reaching 98 degrees, and consequently our pool was not very refreshing. We felt it was worth a small investment to enjoy the much larger investment, ie. the pool/outdoor living area. It works really well....cools our pool by at least 12-15 degrees.

Air temp today is 93 (a little cooler than usual) and the pool temp is 80. (We didn't even run the cooler for the entire recommended time.) So far, we are very satisfied.

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Update:
Spoke to the manufacturer. They will be sending out a service crew to buff the pool and spa. (It will take about a month for them to fit us in!) We told them that we are not comfortable risking damage to the gel coat. They did say that there would be some cost involved....Maybe we can negotiate?? In the meantime, we will continue to maintain a lower ph and add de-scaler until help arrives.

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Is there anyway that you can provide ideal ranges (ph, TA, TH, CYA, TC?....I understand that TC is relative to CYA) for the type pool that I have, SWCG colored FB? I want to be confidant that I am properly balancing the water. (I am getting conflicting numbers from different sources.)

Also, what do you think about the manufacturer stating that a ph above 7.4 will result in scaling?

My test kit should be in today! (k2006)

Thanks!!!!!!!