Newbie needs help. Need a Plan Of Attack To Get This Pool Open

[NullQwerty]

Hi folks,

So, I've been making a few posts on my individual problems here and there, but I need overall guidance here for my vinyl inground pool.

My pool is really dirty. I'm a new pool owner, so I don't know how bad it is in comparison to other pools at the beginning of the season, but the pool water is a dark dark green and you can't see more than 1 foot down. If you take the water out (like you fill up a cup) then it looks clear, but the pool itself looks damn dirty.

So, my problem is, I haven't been able to add any shock to the pool because the DE filter's pressure builds up to the point that it needs backwashing and a drain (20+ PSI) within a 1/2 hour - 1 hour. Much quicker though if I vacuum the pool. Technically I'm supposed to backwash at 10 PSI. And I can't vacuum to drain because I don't have a seperation tank or waste line.

So, I can't shock the pool because I can't backwash every 1/2 hour for 24 hours straight and I can't just let the shock sit there without the pump running (right?). I can't vacuum because the filter needs a backwash within minutes. I can't just let the filter run on it's own because it needs a backwash in < 1 hour. And I can't vacuum to drain because I don't have a seperation tank or waste line.

I've already gone through 50 lbs of DE. Does anyone have any advice? Is there chemicals I could put in which will clear things up that don't require the pump to be running (despite having a vinyl pool)?

Thanks so much. You guys have been invaluable!

[mwsmith2]

Well, step number one is to give us your test results...hopefully from your own drops-based kit. Avoid test stips, but you probably already know this.

Looking at the water in a cup is not a good comparison. You're looking through 4" of water. It's got to be really funky to not be able to see through that. Looking through 5' of it is where you see the funk.

You need to get your Cl up to the 15 ppm range. You didn't mention the size of your pool, so I can't give you a starting number. However, I can tell you that the only thing that is going to solve your problem is Cl, and lots of it. Do you have a recirc setting on your pump? That may help getting the Cl distributed about. Once the algae is killed off, it won't plug your filter as fast. Sounds odd, but it's true.

Worst case you can dilute the bleach 50% and cast it out in a bucket to disperse it over the surface. That way you shouldn't damage your liner, and you can start killing off the algae so you can clear the pool.

Michael

[NullQwerty]

That would be great if I can add chemicals without needing the pump on. Unfortunately I don't have that circulate option on my filter (Hayward EC-65 DE filter).

I got some test results from the pool store a few days ago before doing all that I've done, but I imagine the samplings are still about the same??? I'll be home late tonight and will post them then. The pool store guy told me that my results were pretty typical for when opening the pool for the summer. I can also get new readings tomorrow evening.

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention was that my grids were cleaned as part of the Winterizing process.

Thanks again!

[waste]

Null, hi again, your EC65 doesn't have grids, you've got 'fingers' (little tubes to collect the DE on) and you can't backwash because you don't have a 'multiport'. I'm going to end this here, for now while I look up a couple of posts to direct you to, I'll either 'edit' this post or do another when I get the linking info I need.
EDIT* Here's the links (fingers crossed) http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=317, which is a discussion of EC filters. And here (hopefully) is how to vac to waste (ie bypass a multiportless filter) http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1612. Hopefully you'll be able to cull some useful info from them

[NullQwerty]

Hey...I'm Sorry...My terminology may be off...adjust for the newbie factor . What I meant was that during the winterizing process, the filter was opened up and cleaned. I called it Grids, but it may be fingers. Also I thought it was called backwashing what I'm doing, but maybe I'm wrong. When I say backwash, I mean I push the handle at the top down slowly and then up quickly 6-8 times which removes the DE (the filter manual calls that process 'bumping'). Then I open the drain valve and let the water and DE drain out. I then turn on the pump to further clean it and get the gunck out. I then close the drain valve, start her back up, and then add more DE.

The size of my pool is about 36 feet by about 18 feet.

My readings from the other day are here. Again, no chemicals have been added since this was taken:
Saturation Index: -0.7
TDS: 500
CYA: 70
Tot Chlorine: 0.3
Free Chlorine: 0.3
pH: 8.2
Demand Drops: 2
Total Alkalinity: 36
Adj. Total Alk.: 15
Total Hardness: 82

What do you guys think? Anything I can safely do without turning on the pump?

Thanks guys!

Waste: My problem with vacuuming to waste is that I don't have a waste line, so where do I put all the outcoming water? I imagine it would kill my lawn, no?

[mwsmith2]

Well, I can tell you this: if you don't get any Cl in there, it's not going to change. Do what I posted earlier, at least brownian motion and natural convection will disperse the Cl and start doing some good.

If you aren't going to put anything in the pool, I don't think there's much else we can do to help.

Michael

[NullQwerty]

Sounds good. I'll dilute the chlorine and spread around the pool. So should I put as much chlorine as the BleachCalc program reccommends, or will that be too much without circulation running?

Edit: I see...I need to keep adding until I get the chlorine levels up to 15 ppm, regardless of whether circulation is running or not.

[NullQwerty]

Actually, a friend of mine just had a great idea. I could drop a hand pump (like you would use to get water out of your basement) in the shallow end of the pool.

That should get some circulation going. I'll give it a shot as well (unless someone has had a bad experience with this).

[bbb]

NullQwerty, did you see my response to your question in the pool equipment thread? by the way, please just continue in one thread - it's hard to keep track when you have multiple threads going. You really should get more DE and start attacking with lots of bleach. You also really really need a good test kit right away - either the PS234 kit or a drops based kit at Wal-Mart or a pool store. See this thread for some inspiration, and read away at this site and www.poolsolutions.com.

The good people on this forum can give you a plan of attack, but you need to provide good info from the front lines (in other words, results from doing your own pool water testing from a drops-based kit) in order for us armchair generals to guide you to get swimming quickly!

ps - I think the hand pump is kind of a waste of time. An electric pool cover type pump, with the hose still in the pool, would be ok, but why bother? Best to just buy some more DE right away, and wait longer between backwashings. Most of all, get that chlorine in the pool!

[NullQwerty]

Ok...It's got chemicals in it. I added 5 gallons of Chlorine shock to the pool and at the suggestion of the pool store guy, I have three 3" chlorine tablets in floaters. I did this a few hours ago.

I went out and bought the drop based kit from Walmart (but will order the one from this site soon). I will take new readings in the morning and post them here. I'd take them tonight, but I imagine having added the chemicals so recently I wouldn't get an accurate reponse? If I'm wrong, tell me and I'll post readings tonight.

bbb...Hey, Got your response in the other thread and responded to it. Sorry...I will consolidate to just this thread going forward.