Testimonial to POP...numbers better everyday but still need help with cloudy water

[poolprobe]

I only found the Forum a few weeks ago when we had a disaster on our hands when we opened the pool (complete with algae, tadpoles and frogs). We spent over $900 in chemicals last year (much of it on phosphate remover) recommended by the pool store...we never swam...the year before we swam 5 times. Once I found this Forum I said no more pool stores and switched to the BBB method.

I wanted to let everyone with cloudy / problematic water who was/is as frustrated as we were know, that the POP position while waiting for pool water to cooperate does pay off. Although you'll be tempted to just add a little of this or a lot of that or even worse go to the pool store, have your water checked and then spend a ton of money on the MUST HAVES...don't do it! Although tempted...we didn't this year. I feel like we're almost there.

Although the water is still hazy in the deep end the water overall is looking better...still waiting for that sparkling clear water but things are looking up. Some of the numbers remain a bit out of whack...hoping for some advise on where to go next.

Here are our numbers (finally got our Taylor test kit):

5/22/12: Chlorine 9, Combined chlorine 2.0, Alkalinity 250 and Ph was 7.8 (CYA=28 5/20/12)
added 1/2 bottle of muratic acid to pool and 5 smart stix in skimmer
5/23: Chlorine 10, Combined chlorine 1.0, Alkalinity 210, Ph 7.4, CYA 54
5/24: Chlorine 6.5, Combined chlorine 1.0, Ph 7.4, Alkalinity 170, Hardness 320 (has been between 310- 330 for about 3 wks), CYA 85

Automatic cover is fixed...when to cover and when not to cover?
Do we leave it open or cover it when it rains?
Pool pump/filter has been running 24/7 for over 2 weeks (no way to turn it to low...runs or doesn't run).
Doesn't need backwashed per psi checks. We backwashed after a floc that Ben recommended about a week ago.

Side note (may be important maybe not)
I keep reading that hardness is not an issue for vinyl liner pools but today I noticed a tarp that had filled with rain water that has since dried up. It was stained an orange/red color where the water had laid. When we tested our tap water the numbers were : Chlorine 0, Ph 7.4, Alk 340, Hardness +1000, CYA below 30 (tested with 6 in 1 from Walmart before we got the Taylor K2006)
Wonderd if the hardness in our drinking water (or the other values) would make the hardness an issue in our pool? No staining red/orange staining on the pool liner.

What do we focus on now and how do we accomplish it? Is the cloudiness still due to an algae kill over 3 weeks ago (chlorine has maintained levels for days/weeks at a time once we shocked enough with bleach until they finally held...once they held they have maintained... levels of 5+ (walmart kit) for over a week and a half straight and since the Taylor it's been 10 or over (until this latest reading. )

Thanks again for all of your help.

[Watermom]

Keep the chlorine at shock level since you still are showing a CC of 1.0. I'd keep the cover at least partially open when shocking to vent the pool. Fumes can damage the cover.

Hardness is an issue when it is high; it can cause cloudy water problems especially when you also have high TA, but since you still have CC, for now, you have to assume that your cloudiness is from fighting something in the water.

By the way, there is no CYA in your tap water.

Thanks for the testimonial and kind words! We appreciate them.

[poolprobe]

OK will do. When you say to keep chlorine at shock level do you mean above 10 ...is there a specific number or range we should shoot for or specific amount to add to get there? Any benefit to super shocking like adding 4-5 gallons of bleach over a few hours...don't want it to kill my liner

For the first time last night the kids the water smelled like what they thought was chlorine and that it had a taste too. Is that to be expected? Before they swam the chlorine was 9...added 1.42 gal. Walmart bleach lastnight. Cover open all night, closed it today to prevent burnoff by the sun since we were gone. Chlorine tonight when we opened the cover was 11 and Ph was 7.8

Sorry...Combined chlorine tonight is still 1.0

Many thanks !

[PoolDoc]

Shock level, based on your CYA level, and the Best Guess chart.

Until that 1 ppm combined chlorine residual is gone, you'd expect to encounter smells and odors.

Also, I hadn't picked up on the fact that you had a cover you could take on and off -- you need to leave it off. Chlorine + solar UV is MUCH more effective against organic residuals than chlorine alone. If you are traveling again, and can't keep an eye on it, then cover it. But if you are there, leave it uncovered, both so the sun can irradiate it, and so the volatile organics can escape.

[Watermom]

You can find the Best Guess Chlorine Chart that PoolDoc referred to in my signature line below.

[poolprobe]

OK so being new to this and trying to make my best guess on how to use the Best Guess chlorine chart to deal with my cloudy water...
Today's numbers:
FC= 8.0 (after swimming last night and today), CC=1, Ph=7.6, ALK=200, HDNS=280 and CYA=54
Hope I remember correctly...
Added 1/2 bottle muratic acid to begin to try to get Ph to 7.2 at which point I'll shock to 15 ppm using the CYA range of 30-50 since 54 is closer to 50 than 60 (or should it be the 60-90 range shocking to 20?)

For our pools 26,696 gallons of water in order to raise the FC 7ppm , I would add approx. 420 oz of bleach to raise to 15 ppm??

Once the pool is at 15ppm I know I need to keep it there but for how long?
I'm only to worry about getting the CC to 0 and don't need to worry about the other numbers until then?
In the Best Guess chart 15 ppm when the CYA is in the 40-50 range is in the lt. green section and should be safe to swim? If I'm to adjust frim the 50-60 range to 20 then 20 is in the orange so no swimming until it comes down to at least 15? This is where it gets fuzzy for me and want the kids to be safe swimming.

This is the plan but please let me know if I'm off base....desperately don't want a set back.

Thanks a bunch!

[PoolDoc]

I think part of your problem is that you think this is an EXACT science. But, it's not. There are no magic chemical levels, where at pH 7.3421 exactly, the calcium starts to precipitate, or at FC=15.03ppm the algae will start to die.

Pool chemistry is approximate, not exact! There are no 'perfect' levels; there's only 'good enough', or 'not good enough' . . . and where those levels are varies from pool to pool.

So, for example, you need to think of your pool as "27,000 gallons" (or more likely, 26,000 -- values by liner companies and builders are almost always inflated!), NOT 26,696 gallons.

Here's a general chemical rule that will help you avoid problems: "When treating your pool, if you are unsure, over-dose with chlorine but under-dose with everything else!"

[PBLsQuad450]

Probie, don't sweat 7.6 so much as focusing on getting CC to 0 like you said. I run my pool at 7.8 because my source water and natural tendency is there and I would rather adapt to it's inclination than fight it if the fight isn't worth starting. bring up the Cl. You must have read it here somewhere, "shock" is a verb. So get to action. stop playing "touch and go" and kill the stuff living in your pool. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.