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Thread: Chlorine Won't Hold

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Chlorine Won't Hold

    I need your help!! We have an 22,000 inground pool that's 9 years old that has an automatic pool cover. We opened it early on April 4th (six weeks) ago due to our mild winter. It was green and cloudy. We treated for algae with no result. Six weeks and several different treatments & over $1,000 later we have not improved at all with a TC level of about 0.6 and a FC of 0.0. Due to our TDS being up to 2,900 and no avail to getting the chlorine to hold we did 2 partial drains & fills (treating our fill water for iron at the time of fill). The chlorine demand prior to & after did not change. We've been running our automatic chlorinator wide open and the filter and pump none stop. We've done several separate shocks in different intervals raining from 10 lbs burnout 35, 30 gallons bleach, 18 lbs burnout 3, and now today 85 lbs of burnout 3 (for a partially drained pool of only about 12,000 gallons water remaining). Pool place said to do another partial drain & either shock partially drained pool or when refilled with water (which we ran a sample of our fill water and it's chlorine demand is 0 and only has the iron to contend with). We drained & shocked with 85 lbs burnout 3 and 3 hours later tested & FC only 0.6ppm. We are at our wits end and don't know what else to do other than drain the whole thing which will cause the liner to pull away, replace the liner & then completely refill. We do not want to do this! But...we've done everything our pool place has told us to do, they don't understand why it's not improving & seem to be clueless! We need your help. Thanks for any direction you can give. Below are our current levels:
    temp 78
    sat idex 0.3
    tds 1500
    cya 100 (this hasn't gone down at all with any of the 3 partial drains & fills)
    TC 0.6 (as of sample today BEFORE 85 lbs shock)
    FC 0.0 (as of sample today BEFORE 85 lbs shock) (registered 0.6 after shock at home)
    ph 7.4
    total alkalinity 225
    adj alkalinity 195
    hardness 304
    optimum not tested
    copper 0.1
    iron 0.3

  2. #2
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    waterbear is offline Lifetime Member Sniggle Mechanic waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars
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    Default Re: Chlorine Won't Hold

    First of all your TDS is NOT the problem but your high CYA which is way over 100 ppm from what you have described is a big part of your problem.

    I suspect that you might have ammonia in the water from degredation of CYA and if this is true it will take a LOT of chlorine (use bleach!) to get rid of it. However, since the CYA is also so high partial drain and refill will not only dilute the CYA but also the ammonia.
    I would suggest getting an inexpensive aquairium ammonia test kit and seeing if that is the problem. Report back here once you get the results. Pool stores do not test for ammonia since they do not have a product they can sell you to remove it!

    I would also suggest getting yourself a good test kit and start testing your own water and getting away from the Bioguard pool store you are freqenting. Their testing method (ALEX) is designed to sell more chemicals, not balance your water!
    Retired pool store and commercial pool maintenance guy.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Chlorine Won't Hold

    Take Waterbear's advice and get a good kit! The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C. If you click on the test kit link in my signature below, you can get one for a good price at Amazon. You cannot buy this kit anyplace locally.

    Welcome to the Pool Forum!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Chlorine Won't Hold

    Well, it took me awhile to find "BurnOut 3", but I finally found it on the EPA's pesticide site:
    http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_s...3-20100628.pdf

    It's a diluted calcium hypochlorite mixture, sold under all these names: "PROGUARD GRANULAR CALCIUM HYPOCHLORITE",
    "BIOGUARD MAINTAIN CLC3", & "BIOGUARD MAINTAIN BURN BOUT3"

    Check and make sure that we're talking about THIS product: http://www.poolgeek.com/BioGuard-Burn-Out-3-P9506.aspx

    OK. Now, assuming that you have added 85lbs of "Burn Out 3" (& not "Burn Out 35" or any of the OTHER products named "Burn Out something or other"), we need to see what you've done:

    + 85 x 0.57 = 48 lbs of 100% CaOCl or roughly, 48 lbs of chlorine gas equiv
    + your pool volume is 22,000 gallons (reported) for a PF of 5.4
    + so your total add chlorine is 5.4 x 48 or 260 ppm.

    That's a lot. If you are reporting the weights and volumes accurately, this probably the worst case of someone being 'pool-stored' I've heard of this year. (It may not have been malicious: they may just be either very negligent or extremely ignorant!) I hope your pool is not a liner pool.

    Do these things:

    + Never, ever trust that pool store again.
    They have worked you over with a large industrial size auger.
    Something like this:


    + Get an HTH 6-way test kit at one of these stores:
    Walmart store #1771—Sturgis
    1500 S Centerville Rd, Sturgis, MI 49091 (269) 651-8580
    Walmart store #1378—Goshen
    2304 Lincolnway E, Goshen, IN 46526 (574) 534-4094
    + Check your chlorine level as soon as you get back with that test. If the OTO drops turn orange, you have a level that probably between 20 and 40 ppm. If it turns brown, your level is probably OVER 50 ppm.

    + Check your stabilizer level also. You may find that the stabilizer test mixture is so cloudy all you can tell is that you have way more than 100 ppm. If so, take a glass measuring cup, fill it to the 1/4 cup line with pool water and the rest of the way, with tap water. Mix, and then test the stabilizer level in the pool water / tap water mix. Multiple the result by 4, and you'll have an approximate measure of your pool's CYA.

    + Let us know what you find.

    + There are two significant possibilities.
    ==> Your stabilizer was EXTREMELY high (> 400 ppm) and still is VERY high, but large portion of it has been converted to ammonia by bacteria. In this case, you could actually have added 250+ ppm of chlorine to your pool and yet have none left . . . and STILL need more chlorine.
    ==> You have EXTREMELY high stabilizer (> 400 ppm) and you have NOT lowered it, except by draining and refilling. You now have a pool chlorine level that is above 100 ppm, and is instantly bleaching out your chlorine tests.

    Testing your pool for chlorine with OTO, and for stabilizer, as I described above will help determine if either of these possibilities is true. Regardless, there is NO way a pool store should have let you put in 250+ ppm of chlorine, without doing some very serious investigations.

    So, please do the testing I described, and also post full info on your pool: pool surface type, filter & pump make and model, and so forth.

    Best wishes

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Chlorine Won't Hold

    Thanks to you all for your responses and suggestions. When I woke up Sunday morning I went out to test chlorine. As soon as I tested it only turned cloudy and didn't show any chlorine. I started a little chemistry project in my kitchen with a gallon of pool water and bleach adding & diluting until I got a chlorine level but nothing did it. I finally did a sample of straight bleach & got the same result so it finally hit me. My chlorine must be too high to register and was bleaching the test tabs out. We had all ready drained so we started adding fill water....17 hours later and pool full I retested this morning and got a FC level over 10ppm. After work I ran to pool place for them to give me their readings & ran to Wal-Mart & picked up the 6 way test kit to do my own tests. These are the results...Pool Store Results: TC 10 +, FC 10 +, PH 7.4, CYA 75, Iron up to 0.5 (was at 0.3...up b/c my fill water from partial drain and I added 3 qt pool magnet Sun 5/20 and then Sparkle Up 5 cups Mon am 5/21), Adj Alkalinity up to 247 (was 195 on 5/19 test sample), TDS 1400, and hardness up (pool store didn't say to what amount but said this is due to the calcium based shock of Burnout 3 and directed us to use scale inhibitor). My tests results from 6 Way test are: TC orange & pool doc suggested that means TC between 20-40ppm, FC 10 +, PH 7.4, CYA 70, Iron (no test available), Alkalinity 240, Hardness over 800! (last pool store record on 5/19 was 304). I forgot the amonia test Our pool is a liner pool. Our water quality as of this evening is very milky/cloudy which pool store suggests is hardness and chlorine that will "burn off." For information our pump is "Pentair Ultra-Flow High Performance Pump", top mount sand filter is "Pentair Sand Dollar Tagelus", and MiniMax Plus Pentair Millivolt Ignition Heater. Pool store is excited about chlorine level 10+ and gave suggestions of add 6 lbs Lo n Slow daily X 3 day to reduce Alkalinity. They said they also will address hardness but not too worried about it now and wants alkalinity down first and hardness up due to calcium based shock. I have little faith in my pool store's advice and would really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks for your help!
    22K IG pool w/ auto cover

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Chlorine Won't Hold

    Hi Kresse;

    1. Stay away from that store, far, far away!
    2. Forget about ammonia - with a high stable chlorine level, that is NOT the issue.
    3. Do NOT worry about alkalinity yet.
    4. Turn the pump off for 24 hours, and lets see of the calcium cloud will settle out.
    5. Tell us what sort of pool you have: vinyl, concrete, fiberglass, etc
    6. If your heater is ON, turn it OFF, and leave it off till this is resolved.
    7. Call your pool store, and see if they have this EXACT product in stock:
    GLB Pool & Spa Products 71408 1-Quart Drop n' Vac Pool Water Clarifier @ Amazon
    If not, order it from that link. You may not need it, but there's a fair chance you will, and it will take a few days to arrive. If you are able to get it . . . do NOT use it without further advice! If your store has it, you can wait to see if you'll need it. But do NOT listen to their advice!

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