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Thread: Helping neighbor with pool

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Question Helping neighbor with pool

    My neighbor has been getting pool store'd! So I decided to lend a hand.

    35,000 gallons, liner, light green water, they use a tablet feeder and granules.
    They recently, earlier this week, shocked it with granules and its still green.

    FC: 0 ppm
    ph: below 7
    ALK: taylor test turned pink right away instead of green! never seen that happen. does that mean 0 ppm?
    CYA: 0 ppm

    I had them go get like 8 jugs of bleach yesterday and told them to pour in 4 last night.
    They were supposed to go to lowes and get 12 lbs of CYA also. The formula says to get to 40ppm would take 11.66 lbs.
    I am going to go test today to see if any FC is still there and also start with the CYA. Should I start with 6 lbs and use a little pool owner patience or go heavier on the CYA?

    Is this the right start or do we need to work on ph and alk?
    I have never had to mess with my ph and alk so feel free to walk me through what to use and how to correct those issues.

    thanks!
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Hi Jilted,

    The very first thing you need to do is have them get that pH up above 7.0. Start with about 1/4 box of Borax, poured very slowly into the skimmer, breaking up clumps as you go. Give it a couple of hours to circulate, and then retest pH. If pH isn't above 7.0, then add another 1/4 box. Keep this up until you have it between 7.0-7.8. Be careful to pour it very slowly so it won't clump up in the pipes.

    Second...each gallon of 6% bleach is only going to raise the chlorine by 1.7 ppm, and with CYA at 0, the chlorine needs to be raised to 12-15 ppm and held there until the water clears up. So with the chlorine at 0, which I expect you to find today since the water is green and there's no CYA, the initial dose should be 7 gallons. They'll have to hold the chlorine there by adding bleach as many times a day as possible--but to know how much bleach to add, they're going to have to test the water to see what's been eaten up. They need to get a good test kit, or at a very minimum an OTO and keep the chlorine in the "orange" range. Of course, this is going to need to be done with the pump/filter running, preferably 24/7 until the water clears up.

    I wouldn't start with the CYA yet until the water is cleared up. If they used tablets all last year, I expect that they closed with a high CYA, and since there's none now, there's gonna be a huge chlorine demand while the chlorine eats up the ammonia left when the CYA degraded. It's gonna take a lot of bleach to fix, but it can be done--and it needs to be, if they want to not have problems all summer.

    Is the water light green and clear, or is there obvious algae growing on the walls? What is the chemical name of the granules (dichlor, cal-hypo, etc). Also, do you know what the CYA level was when they closed last year? Do you know if they have metals in the water? Have you checked the ingredients on the bucket of tabs to see if there is copper listed?
    Janet

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    She doesn't even recall ever using any type of stabilizer ever from what she is telling me they are "heavy chlorine users" and go through many buckets. I'll look through their old stock to see if I see something that is CYA.

    The jugs of bleach we get at the dollar store are 1.5 gallon jugs. I was just guessing at the dosage. I need to learn that formula for my own use also!

    For the Borax, I have never had to look for that before. Walmart has it? Does it need to be that 20 mule team brand?

    What about the alk situation? When should we worry about that?

    I didn't see much on the walls if any, she had it clear and it just turned, also she still has some organics (leaves) on the bottom I told her to get the rest of those out asap.

    thanks!
    -stephen
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    The tabs are trichlor tabs, which contain stabilizer, and if they "go through many buckets", then her CYA was almost certainly high at closing. If she has none now, then it's because it was broken down by bacteria over the winter, and the byproduct is ammonia--which takes lots and lots of chlorine to break down. When she starts using the tabs again, her stabilizer (CYA) will again begin to rise, so I wouldn't worry right now about adding CYA. You'll want to add a little bit later, but not now. The tabs also tend to lower pH, too, because they are acidic, so chances are good that it will take more than one box of Borax (yes, the 20-mule team kind, in the laundry aisle at WalMart--get Borax, NOT the washing soda!) to raise the pH above 7.0, but acidic water can destroy a liner, so that's a priority.

    Do not worry about the alk situation right now. If she doesn't have a heater or SWCG, then it's not a priority and can easily be dealt with later.

    In order to clear this up and get the ammonia taken care of, regular testing is going to be required--she either needs to get a good test kit (drop-based, not strips, we recommend the K-2006 that can be ordered online through the Amazon link in my sig). If she's not willing or able to frequently test and do what's needed to maintain shock level, then it's going to be a waste of time and bleach. So--if you or she is willing to do what it takes, then we'll be happy to walk you through getting it cleared up and going for the season. But it's not a one-time deal--this process takes patience and consistency....and regular testing.

    Check the label on the bleach that you're getting from the dollar store. If it's not 6%, then let me know, because the percentage of sodium hypochlorite will affect the doseage. The doseage I gave you earlier is for 35K gallons of water with 6% bleach. In your pool, at 28K gallons, each 1/2 gallon of 6% will raise your chlorine by 1 ppm.

    Janet

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Thanks for the info.
    I think she meant many buckets of granules but I will find out.
    The family dollar brand 182oz jugs (1.42 gallons) are 6%.
    I'm going to help them get straight using my k-2006 but I'm going to either tell her to get one or sell her mine so I can upgrade to the bigger bottle kit! :-)
    She's at the end of her liner life also and will be replacing after this year.
    I'll report back later on this and will focus on ph and keeping FC high.

    -stephen
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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    aylad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    We still need to know what the granules are--if they're Cal-hypo we'll need a calcium level on her water to make sure it's not too high and may cause milky water. If they're dichlor, that's also stabilized, and will drive pH low.

    Janet

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Real quick, the water is already much less green than it was yesterday!

    The granules are EZ Chlor: Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione-Dihydrate

    She put in 4 jugs yesterday evening, this afternoon the FC with my cheap OTO kit was still fairly dark yellow (possibly 5'ish ppm) which was about 18 hours later. I had her hit it again with 4 more. Also she happened to have a box of 20 mule borax, so I had her put in 1/4 box.

    I went back about 3 hours later and the ph was still lower than 7 so we put in another 1/4 box. Also, the FC reading on the OTO kit was dark orange.

    I'll go back in the AM and test ph and FC again. She is supposed to pick up more bleach and borax this evening.

    One more thing, she got the rest of the leaves out.

    Thanks,
    -stephen
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Morning report: The water is no longer green, it is now blue and sort of cloudy.

    She got and added 2 more jugs bleach (2.8 gallons) and the FC test is still dark orange. The local stores are not restocking this weekend!!! haha

    The pH test is still showing yellow (under 7) so I added the rest of the borax she had available, about 1/3 of a box.

    I will test again later this afternoon.

    -stephen
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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    aylad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Sounds like you're making progress

    Keep working on the pH until you can get it over 7.0, and have her try to keep the chlorine in the orange zone until the pool clears. She'll need to keep the pump and filter running to filter out the cloudiness, which is dead algae. What type of filter does she have, and does she know how and when to clean it?

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    jilted is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst jilted 0
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    Default Re: Helping neighbor with pool

    Looks like my reply yesterday didn't save... weird.

    So ok... today the water is much clearer, you can see the bottom in shallow and also pretty good in the transition to the deep end. The deep bottom is close I can barely make out the bottom drain.

    I have continued adding Borax and even after a half of box (the second box) it still doesn't seem to be changing at all yet. I went ahead and added the rest of box 2 earlier this afternoon. Is this common to use this much Borax if the pool has not been kept up properly? Just curious.

    They have been keeping the FC up high.

    The filter is sand, was changed last year, capacity is 300 lbs. She knows how/when to flush but this year her gauge is dead so I'll help her replace it. The pump has been running 24/7 since I started helping them out.

    -stephen
    26,500g inground vinyl liner (new liner installed June 2013)
    Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump - Hayward sand filter (sand changed in spring 2009)
    Compu Pool CPSC36 SWCG - Polaris 380 cleaner

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