Pro Tease/ SWG CYA

[tmmort]

For some reason this link is redirecting me to www.microsoft.com !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It's because the opening and closing parenthesis got included in the url. Try this.

[waterbear]

It's because the opening and closing parenthesis got included in the url. Try this.

Well, take away all my geek credentials for not noticing that one! (and I used to do admin and system maintenace for an ISP and can rember what it was like to submit Fortran programs on punch cards to a mainframe! can't get much geekier than that.)

[waste]

Thanks all for the input
Ok, I can not link worth a damn. (But I figured Bill Gates could probably use a little more business - I try to help out the small business owner when possible
tmmort, thanks for supplying the link I failed to create.
Evan, Thanks for the input. Did this, and the thread tmmort made accesible, answer your pm to me? (IMHO - you are prooving yourself to be a key member of this forum, I've said the same thing about duraliegh. If it means anything, I think you and Dave would make great moderators, should Ben feel it's necessary to have more ) (I'm fairly sure you're right about the 'parent co')
Dave, my step-brother and his family live in Durham, if I can think of a reason to go visit, I'll let you know - hopefully we could meet, even if the drinks were few, I would at least like to shake your hand and say 'Hi' in person. What doesn't sit well with me with what you passed on, is that the chlorine is 'locked' (as per the 'Best guess'). Albeit, the water will eventually get 'shocked' by the cell, but what happens with the water that has a virulent glob of puss until it hits the cell? I can see that the water is being 'shocked' when it passes through the cell, but WHY have the cya so high?? With a SWCG [], you are cutting out the middle man if you used just bleach, but with a BBB program,I would park my cya @ 25 - 40 ppm, why does a swg need 2X the cya?

Anyway, back to my b*tching.
I started this thread yesterday @ 5:30 (y'all can see the 'post time' for it) Not only can't I link, but it takes me hours to compose a post, and I still can't spell I 'lost' 3 drafts, before I posted - here's some that got lost:

The Ocean Breeze claimes to make the water 'softer' and 'less irritating'. (Remember that this stuff is for SALT pools). The salt water itself does this, will they claim next that their product makes the water 'wet'???? These nice folks have the audacity to also market thier own soda ash... to be used to raise the pH of the water? (When I remember that "THE INDUSTRY" doesn't follow Ben's advice, it almost makes sense, but with their requirement to add 3/4 lb per lb of their product (used to keep algae out or make the pool 'sparklier', you'd think that someone would realise that the borates raise the pH)) I'm suprised that the male members of their board of directors can sit comfortaby (think ram sheep at the ag fair)
Again, thanks to all who viewed and answered my original post here, I think I'm done, but who knows (thanks for letting me vent some!!)

[waterbear]

Waste,
First, thank you for the sincere complement. I just try to do my best with what little I know.
Second, you pretty much answered my PM !

Third, just a comment on why the product companies that sell borax also sell sodium carbonate for pH control....This is just my opinion and has no basis in fact!
Total Alkalinity is also called Carbonate Hardness and is a measure of the carbonate/bicarbonate/carbonic acid buffer system in the water. This is why they recommend sodium carbonate to raise pH since it is part of the buffer system. Downside is that is also raises alkalinity. Borax creates a secondary boric acid/borate buffer system in the water and adds no carbonates to the water which is why it has minimal impact on TA. I am not really sure of all the chemistry of how the 2 buffer system interact at the moment. Would love to research it when (hahaha, more likely IF) I get the time!

an interesting side note, I recently saw a product by Lo-Chlor Specialty Pool Chemicals that adds magnesium to the water to help prevent calcium scaling on salt cells since the magnesium carbonate scale is 'mushy' and washes off easily. The chemisty behind it is sound but with all these additive the pool is becoming more like a salt water aquarium instead of a salt pool. (Hmmm, I wonder if using aqarium salt in a pool might solve all these problems at once? Don't know if I'm brave enough to start adding "Instant Ocean" or "Reef Crystals" to my pool but they do contain the borates and magnesium salts! They're too expensive anyway!)

[PoolDoc]

I've skimmed this thread, and agree with most of what I read: welcome to the wonderful world of marketing!

The interesting thing for me has been, as I came to understand how marketing and sales deception drove the pool industry, I began to see the same sort of deception in most other realms of marketing.

Chemicals seem to be a realm in which deceptive marketing especially flourishes, whether it's cleaning chemicals or pharmeceuticals. But cars, toys, electronics, 'personal hygiene products' and more are all sold with the same kinds of lies.

That's just the kind of world it is in which we live!

Ben

PS: Thanks for keeping the rants here, instead of in the general discussions. But that doesn't mean that newbies shouldn't be told that Proteam is just borax.

PPS: Waste, before you are too hard on your employers, spend some time thinking about what sort of *workable* business model they could adopt that would allow them to be both honest and adequately profitable. I was fortunate, early on, to stumble on a commercial pool service model that allowed both. But, it's model few in the industry understand, and it was tailored somewhat to my own skills which are not entirely typical. Dishonesty is always dishonesty, but even the Bible excuses it more when it's for the sake of eating.

[CarlD]

will they claim next that their product makes the water 'wet'????

Actually, there IS a product out there called "Water Wetter"!! It's for car and motorcycle radiators and it's supposed to improve the heat transfer to the radiator. The crazy thing is the stuff actually works! Vehicles DO run cooler. In racing, I gather you cannot run anti-freeze--in an accident or a spill it causes other accidents. So they run distilled water, and ALL of the teams add "Water Wetter" to it to improve the performance.

Thought THAT would be good for grins!

[DavidD]

And I thought a "water wetter" was my friends 4 year old?

Great rant waste! I'm with ya man. Seems that everyone and everything is driven by the almighty $$. Since we're ranting, why can't anyone else come up with a realistic "Best Guess" chart like Ben? Several people (legitimate or not) have discussed the effects of high CYA on FC yet even the CDC states FC should be between .5 & 3 and CYA should be no higher than 100. Soooooo, FC of 3 and CYA of 100 is O.K???????

[Poolsean]

From the Salt Peanut Gallery.... YES!

[waste]

Hey all,
Again, thanks for all the input (ohmygosh - I started a popular thread ).
(Ben, I just noticed it - thanks for fixing my 'bad' link )
For all who've followed this 'rant' I'd like to direct you to my latest on the ? that started this thread.
(fingers crossed)... http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=9262

Holy &^%*$##@ I made a successful link!!!