I've inherited a mosquito-breeding pool, and need to close it.

[DewiMorgan]

[Already posted this to another forum, got no responses there yet, trying here]

My situation
At my workplace, the guy who used to look after the pool and grounds recently died. So, as the nearest able body, his job has been added into mine, and I inherited his work. Because pool care is like computer programming, right? Right.

So, yeah. I'm a computer programmer. I come from the UK. What I know about pools could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a Crayola.

The pool is overhung by trees, and has been mostly left to its own devices since spring: nobody's used it all year because it's been a scowly murk-green.

For the last few weeks, I've been scooping the worst of the leaves off the top, but there's probably a ton of leaf-mold on the bottom, if I could see it. The water's so impenetrably green you could mistake it for mashed cabbage, and if you look too closely at the murky depths, you realize that there are about enough mosquito larvae in there to feed the whole bat population of Austin for a year. And that lots of them have hatched and are flying around. Turns out that while I have developed an immunity to UK mosquitoes, Texan ones give me bites the size of an egg. I now have dozens of them. I look like the elephant man.

So, here're my problems:
- Texas has a water ban. So, no emptying the pool and refilling it.
- Apparently the pool will collapse or something if it's just left empty. So I'm not allowed to.
- There's no company budget to do anything at all to it.
- I might get away with spending a few bucks of my own, but I don't even know what to do. At the most, my budget is going to be $15/month, though. Money's kinda tight.

What I want to do

1) I want to kill the mosquitoes before they get out the water (OK, before MORE of them get out), so I'm thinking of buying a few bottles of bleach and just pouring them in. Bleach is $1 for 3 quarts of 6% (I think?) at DollarTree, which seems not bad! But I don't know if that's a Really Bad Idea, or what.

Any advice on killing the beasties that lurk in the pool greatly appreciated.

2) I'd also like to cover the pool before autumn really gets going and the leaves start raining down: I'm thinking of throwing all the inflatable pool toys on there, to stop the cover sinking, then putting the cover over the top. It's a big, nonporous plastic sheet, so would need to be held up by something. I'd build a framework to "tent" it, but no money for that.

Any advice for keeping crap out of the pool greatly appreciated.

3) I think what I need to do is to "winterize" this pool. It's not going to be used for the foreseeable future, so I need to shut it down, minimise its maintenance requirements while keeping it from all going to pot.

Any advice for closing/winterizing greatly appreciated.

4) And long term, ideally, if there's any *really cheap* way to do it, I'd like to get the pool usable again, someday. I'm happy to spend a long time on the process: doesn't need to be something that works overnight.

Any advice for making such miracles happen... OK, maybe that's pushing it.

A couple of years ago, the pool was a great perk here at work. We'd get a dozen people in the hot tub in the evenings. It's not been usable since last winter, but I'd love it to be that way again someday, once (in my REAL job, as a computer programmer) I've helped the company to start earning again. Maybe we could open it by next summer? I can dream.

I've tried to write this lightheartedly. But it's a serious request for help. The pool water is still watery, and I'd like to do something before it becomes swampy. At the moment all I know to do is scoop the leaves off the top. I can't SEE the bottom to scoop up those leaves, though when I'm feeling brave I sometimes try to scoop down there, carefully, since the net is beginning to fray and once it's gone, there's no money for another.

I think if I bleach ("shock") it and stuff starts to die, then I'll be able to see the bottom. Maybe?

So any advice on how to eventually achieve that would again be appreciated.

What I know about the pool

The pool is roughly 15'x25', wet, opaque green, and full of leaves and mosquito larvae. People have variously told me there are 15,000, 25,000 and 30,000 gallons in there. Hard to tell since it's non-rectangular, more of a sort of splooshy goosh shape, with a blob at the side for the hot tub, and a floor that slopes in all directions, randomly towards the middle of the deep end.

There's a small collection of bottles and tubs in the shed with names like "PhUp", "PhDown", "Stabiliser", "Roach Killer", and a couple of bottles of what I thought was bleach, but it had complicated chemical names on in small writing, and the instruction "do not mix with bleach". I should probably catalog all these so I don't accidentally buy something I already have.

FC / TC / pH / TA / CH / CYA / LOL / WTF:
I couldn't find anything that looked like a testing kit for these, not that I know what testing kits look like, and although I've been reading up a little on basic pool chemistry, I'm not sure that's what I should be focusing on right now anyway.

I think it's a safe assumption that the levels of these are whatever is ideal for mosquitoes. Maybe somewhat more acid, with all the oak leaves rotting in there.

Apparently chlorine degrades in sunlight, and Texas has plenty of that, which is both good and bad: means it's probably impossible to put "too much" in - so long as nobody's swimming there at least.

But also means even if I add it in the evening, I'm still going to need to keep pouring more and more in, and stirring it around. Sounds like a fun money sink. Wonder if even my $15/month will be enough to make a dent in the green. Eh. Well, maybe it'll at least kill some mosquitoes.

The pump & filter apparently do work, but the company doesn't have money to run them, so I'm told not to. I might get away with running them for a few mins every now and then, but I'm afraid to, since:
- I have no idea what the scary mess of knobs and whistles and valves do,
- I'm scared of clogging it up,
- I have no idea how to clean or replace the filters, or where they even are,
- there's no money for that stuff anyway.

As I understand it, to close the pool down:

- I probably need to kill everything in there and scoop the crap out as a first step.
- I apparently have to "balance the chemistry" to protect the pool lining for the long term. No idea how to do this. Something to read up on I guess. Sounds expensive.
- Do I need a "winterizing kit"? How much would that cost? Are there cheaper options?
- Lower the water below the mouth of my "skimmer" - I'm guessing that's the big hole in the wall near the deep end.
- Blow out the water from the plumbing lines. I have NO clue how to do that. Any tips?
- Plug the lines in the pool. I have no idea if we have any plugs, nor where to get replacements, nor what type to ask for. Are there multiple types?
- Use a gizzmo. I know nothing about this bit. It sounds expensive, just from the name.
- Cover the pool. This poses a range of problems.
- Drain the filter. I have no idea about this bit.
- What does backwashing even mean? What's that mess of pipes around the pumps? What do all the knobs and valves and levers and knobbly bits with screw-tops do? Where's the damn manual?

TL;DR: Crying out for help, or at least sympathy, as I'm feeling very lost and alone and daunted. And these mosquito bites are driving me crazy.

[PoolDoc]

A rectangular pool, 15 x 25 x 4' deep, would be ~11,000 gallons. Your pool is going to be between 7,000 and 15,000 . . . unless the deep part is REALLY deep, and covers a lot of the pool.

• You don't say what part of Texas you're in, but the sort of winter weather you have affects how you need to winterize.
• You've got essentially zero money, and few useful chemicals.
• You'd like to get the pool back to usable, but the will-kick-you-in-the-butt-if-you-fail issue is to keep the pool from utterly falling apart.

Do this:
+ If the pump is running (or can run) add ALL the chlorine chemicals to the pool, following label instructions for adding them. The primary reason for adding this stuff is to dispose of it -- chlorine doesn't store well, and will damage equipment rooms from off-gassing as it gets old. If you happen to have more than 10+ of chlorine chems, add 10+, and then post a list of what you have left here.

+ Post a list of all chemicals you have INCLUDING CHEMICAL NAMES (not brand or product names!) here.

+ Get a cheap ~$10 OTO/phenol red test kit, and post pH test results here.

+ Buy a quart of cheap 50% algicide at Walmart (~$15) and dump it in. It won't kill the algae, but the lowered surface tension will probably kill the larvae, without causing future pool problems. If you had more than 10# of chems, add the chlorine first, wait 2 days, and then add the algicide.

+ Go ahead and cover the pool.

+ Post your location and we'll look up winter weather norms, before telling you how to winterize.

+ Forget about cleaning up the water: with your budget, it's not an option, even if you use plain bleach.

[DewiMorgan]

Thank you *so* much. Seems like you totally "get" where I'm coming from, and how I'm concerned about the potential future butt-kicking this is going to give me.

The location is Round Rock, just north of Austin.

I get Sun/Mon off, so I'll go back on Tues and do as you suggest in the evening. However... I've been rummaging in the shed, and have found out a fair bit of stuff that *might* help

Water Reports:
--------------
In the shed I found some water reports! Now, I'm sure the readings and recommendations are way out of date, so I've ignored those completely, other than to note that there was probably a reasonable amount of stabiliser put in there at some point. That's going to have been eaten by the algae, so that's going to likely need a ton of chlorine to clear out.

There's a "Self Chem Solutions pool water analysis report" with some useful info.
Water volume - 15000 gallons
Attached Spa - Y
Filter Type - S (sand?)
Finish is "C" - concrete? That's what my boss said it was.

There's also a "Leslie's Water Analysis Report", in which some values differ.
Water volume - 15000 gallons
Type - Pool&Spa
Sanitizer - Chlorine
Surface - Plaster/Marcite - what's the difference between that and concrete? Are they the same? If not, how do I tell who's right?

Then I went out to look at the confusing and scary mess o' pipes.


Hardware:
---------
I don't know what any of these do, nor how to use these, and would appreciate advice, especially with the valves.

There are three "Jandy Valve Actuators" with wires going off. These have levers that were used to control the flow, back in the day. I think before even that, there was some kind of remote, timed computer control of these: there's a control panel in the kitchen but I'm told it doesn't work any more.

Valve 1 - Model UVA2440. Back pipe goes to pump, left to sand filter, right (via energy filter) into the ground.
Valve 2 - Model GVA-24. Back pipe goes to pump. Left and right go straight into the ground.
Valve 3 - Model UVA2440. Back pipe goes to water heater via Chlorine Feeder. Left and right go straight into the ground.

There's a big round "Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter". Three pipes lead from this. One seems to be for draining: it just leads to the lawn. One goes to the heater, and one goes to valve 1

There's a big box with the logo "Rheem" on the front, and a control panel. From all the warnings on it, I'm guessing this is the pool heater. Model is P-M267A-EN-C. Two pipes lead from this, one to the sand filter, one to the chlorine feeder.

Between heater and valve 3 is a Pentair "Model 320 Automatic Chlorine/Bromine ....ine Feeder" (label has degraded, some letters illegible).

There's what I guess is the pump, labelled "Emerson 1081 Pool Motor", between valves 1 and 2. It's marked as "230v, 60hz, 2.0hp, 10.5 sf amps" - I don't know if that voltage means it has a special power supply, or if that's its max rated. Anyway, a 2HP pump is going to cost about $100/month just to have running, I think. I need to run the numbers on that. But it's not looking good

There's a "Jandy Energy Filter" connected between valve 1 and where the pipe disappears into the ground.

A "Polaris" residential swimming pool and spa air blower is on a pipe that rises from the ground.


Chemical Inventory:
-------------------
Purposes are just my best guesses.

For raising Chlorine/Sanitizing:
The pucks, I guess, are for sticking in the chlorine feeder, for chlorinating the pool once stabilised. Probably not useful for shocking?
- Solutions "3in Super Pucks chlorinating tablets" - 4 x 7oz pucks
- Leslie's "3in Jumbo Tabs", stabilized chlorinating tablets 99% trichloro-s-triazinetrione (available chlorine 90%) - 9 pucks.

For raising Calcium:
- Solutions "Equalizer 300" Calcium Chloride 100% - 3lb
- Ram "Hardness Control" Calcium Chloride - 3lb

For raising pH:
- Leslie's "Alkalinity Up" Sodium bicarbonate - 10lb
- Solutions "Equalizer Plus 200" Sodium Carbonate 100% - 1lb
- Solutions "Equalizer 100" Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate - 4 x Half an 18-lb bucket
- Regal "pH Plus" Sodium Carbonate 100% - 1lb
[If alkalinity is high, avoid Sodium carbonate, use borax instead]

For lowering pH:
- HTH congealed "pH Minus" Sodium bisulfate 92% - 3.5lb
- TransChem "Muriatic Acid" 20deg Baume Hydrochloric Acid 31.45% - 2 x 1 gal

For Algae:
- HTH "Super Algae Eliminate 60" 60% Poly {oxyethylene{dimethylimino}ethylene, {dimethylimino}ethylene dichloride } (That's PolyQuat, right? A quart of this chucked in the pool sounds like it should help, but is it OK to put in at the same time as the bleach?)

Cleaning Stuff:
- Solutions "Suspend M+S" metal and scale control "contains phosphoric and other inorganic acids" - 1.5Qt
- Solutions "Filtex-G" Filter Cleaner and Degreaser - 0.5Qt
- Aqua EZ Cartridge and DE Filter Cleaner - 6 fl
- Solutions 1qt "Strip-off" surface cleaner contains hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid and detergents

Also misc non-pool-related stuff, probably: Miracle Gro, Windex, Unlabelled purple bottle, unlabelled blue bottle, engine oil, WD-40, roundup, green light pest control.

I'd love to know which of these do what, and if there are any I should throw away, and how to correctly dispose of them if so.

I'm noticing a distinct lack of anything like bleach or chlorine. Should I chuck the pucks in, or bite the bullet and buy some DollarTree bleach?

How much will I need? Hrm. Assuming it's 6%, if I want 6PPM, I'm gonna need...
1PPM in 15,000gal = 0.015 gal = 0.06 quarts.
So 1 quart of 6% (0.06) bleach = 1PPM chlorine!
That makes my life mathematically easy, if I got the math right.

So to put in 5PPM, I'll need at least 5 quarts, so chucking in a couple of 3 quart bottles might do, though the algae might just use that up in a jiffy. I get the feeling from my reading that Chlorine's one of the things that's hard to seriously overdose with, especially in Texas' sun, and doubly so if this algae has been eating a lot of stabilizer.

Still, two bottles of bleach and one of polyquat in on Tues evening, and see how it looks when I get in on Wednesday.

[DewiMorgan]

Rereading: I should probably use the chlorine tabs first, i they go off fast? Hrm. I'll read the instructions on them and on the chlorine feeder and try to figure out how to make that happen.

[PoolDoc]

I'd put the chlorine tabs in -- A FLOATER, not directly -- just to use them up. They don't store well.

Otherwise, don't bother, till you get the test kit and test the water. The chlorine demand is going to be much greater than the amount of chlorine you have, so ultimately, it won't have any effect on the pool. But,you do NOT want to keep storing that tri-chlor.

Open those containers OUTSIDE, with you standing up wind, and holding your breath. If they've been sitting for over a year, whack the buckets HARD with a broom handle at arms length BEFORE you move them. Sometimes they can build up enough nitrogen trichloride -- which is a shock-sensitive but weak explosive, among other things -- when they are stored for a long time. If it's present, you want to 'blow the lid off', literally!, before you pick up the buckets.

Don't bother with the polyquat. It will be useful later, but it doesn't have the effect on surface tension cheap algaecide does, and that's what will kill your mosquito larvae.

Ditto on buying bleach, and stuff. A couple of gallons will only waste money.

Austin, TX climate info (from Wikipedia) suggests you don't need to worry about having winterized pipes and valves till December, so focus on the cover and the larvae. But, if the pump is not running . . . don't start it. By the way, you might want to consider operating budget effects from the pump: 2KW per hour, x Austin's electical rates, is a non-trivial expense and is far more than your 'operating' budget.

So, other than getting a cheap tab floater so you can use the tabs, just follow directions above, and worry about winterized pipes later.

But, if the pump hasn't be run in a year or more . . . you may not need to worry about that, either. Equipment damage has probably already been done, and will cost hundreds if not thousands to repair. Bad for the pool, but good for your CYA (Cover Your . . .) needs.

[DewiMorgan]

floater and test kit bought. There goes this month's budget! :P

I'll stick three tabs in the floater this evening, not that I'm sure it'll do a lot of good with zero pol circulation. I'll stir it with the pool net, but until the water level's up to the skimmer, and until I know how the pump works, that's about all I can do.

Test ("Leslie's Basic OTO Poolcare Test Kit") says: Chlorine < 0.5PPM (very weak yellow, paler than the palest on the scale), pH > 8.5 (very rich red, deeper than the deepest on the scale). Water taken from elbow-deep in water, by the skimmer, not that the water reaches that.

[PoolDoc]

The goal with the floater is NOT to "do a lot of good" but to "dispose of the tabs safely"! Fill the floater up!

OK. Your pH is high enough to be of some concern. Go to Lowes, and buy a gallon of muriatic acid (saw it for $6.50 today). Find a CLEAN 5 gallon plastic bucket with a handle. Fill it with 2 gallons of WARM water. Add 1/8 - 1/4 gallon of acid. Do this OUTSIDE, with sun or safety glasses AND glove on, AND near a gently running water hose at hand. Watch out for fumes. Once you've added the acid, use the water hose to mix the warm water and acid together, by adding some water directionally, to create a current in the bucket.

Leave the hose running, so if you need to rinse off a spill (on you, or on anything else) you can do so quickly.

Carry the bucket to the pool, and add 1/2 gallon of mix to multiple locations. Wait 2 days. Retest pH; if above 7.8, dose with acid again. Repeat til the pH is below 7.8 OR you are out of acid. Make sure you wait 2 days between doses; without circulation it may take that long to distribute.

Using warm water and highly diluted acid should keep the acid mix from hitting the pool bottom where it could be a problem.

Otherwise, my original list still applies.

[DewiMorgan]

Thanks once again, and apologies for my denseness.

I will add more tabs when I get in tomorrow, then, and get the muriatic acid and cheap algicide at the next paycheck. I'm surprised it's so strongly alkaline - I thought oak leaves were acidic. Shows how little I know.

Lessee, how far am I on that To-Do list you gave me?

+ [...] add ALL the chlorine chemicals to the pool [in a floater]. The primary reason for adding this stuff is to dispose of it.
- In progress.

+ Post a list of all chemicals you have INCLUDING CHEMICAL NAMES (not brand or product names!) here.
- Done.

+ Get a cheap ~$10 OTO/phenol red test kit, and post pH test results here.
- Done.

+ Buy a quart of cheap 50% algicide at Walmart (~$15) and dump it in. It won't kill the algae, but the lowered surface tension will probably kill the larvae, without causing future pool problems. If you had more than 10# of chems, add the chlorine first, wait 2 days, and then add the algicide.
- Still to do. Waiting on paycheck. This one's actually to kill the larvae?

+ Get muriatic acid, mix and add per your directions.
- Still to do. Waiting on paycheck. This one's to prevent the acid etching the walls?

+ Go ahead and cover the pool.
- Still to do. Cover has gone missing. Likely in the garage somewhere, which will be an adventure in itself.

+ Post your location and we'll look up winter weather norms, before telling you how to winterize.
- Done.

+ Forget about cleaning up the water: with your budget, it's not an option, even if you use plain bleach.
- Done. *sigh* The hardest one you've given me, but I agree it needed doing


Questions:

1) What does a $15 plastic floater do more than, say, a loose-woven cloth baggie tied around a tab and a brick of wood? Assuming the brick's large enough to prevent the tab touching the sides of the pool, that is?

2) I won't add the other stuff until the chlorine's used up, unless you recommend otherwise: but is it OK to put the muriatic acid and the cheapo algicide in on the same day?

[BigDave]

You don't have to wait for your next paycheck to lower the pH, You have Muriatic Acid and Dry Acid (sodium bisulfate) in your chemical inventory.

Another thought: Can you organize your colleagues to pitch in and try to get the pool back? If 10 more people can put up $15/mo like you are, you may be able to clean it up in the spring.

[PoolDoc]

apologies for my denseness.

No need for apologies; no denseness is involved.

I thought oak leaves were acidic.

Tannic acid -- in oak leaves -- is acidic. But oak leaves are more than tannic acid, & have no idea what their overall effect is. Dunno why your pool is basic; only that it is.

+ Buy a quart of cheap 50% algicide at Walmart (~$15) and dump it in. It won't kill the algae, but the lowered surface tension will probably kill the larvae, without causing future pool problems. If you had more than 10# of chems, add the chlorine first, wait 2 days, and then add the algicide.
- Still to do. Waiting on paycheck. This one's actually to kill the larvae?

Yes

+ Get muriatic acid, mix and add per your directions.
- Still to do. Waiting on paycheck. This one's to prevent the acid etching the walls?

To prevent high pH from causing problems, of various types. But acidity causes etching, not basicity (high pH). Sorry about not checking your inventory list.

You should absolutely do as Big Dave suggested, and use up all acid sources BEFORE you buy more. BTW, trichlor tabs are also acid.

Regardless, follow earlier instructions about adding acid in highly diluted form with warm water, to prevent damage that could occur in an uncirculated pool otherwise.

Questions:

1) What does a $15 plastic floater do more than, say, a loose-woven cloth baggie tied around a tab and a brick of wood? Assuming the brick's large enough to prevent the tab touching the sides of the pool, that is?

Trichlor will destroy most forms of cloth, and some forms of plastic.

2) I won't add the other stuff until the chlorine's used up, unless you recommend otherwise: but is it OK to put the muriatic acid and the cheapo algicide in on the same day?

Yes, just not in the same spot.