Acid and Base Demand tests: Useful or Not?

[waterbear]

2 things:
First. this post was split at my post trying to explain the confusion in this thread about the K-1005, K-1000, and K-2006 AND to clarify that both R-0004 and R-0014 pH reagents contain the chlorine neutralizer but are at different concentrations because of the comparator size and NOT that one has chlorine neutralizer and one does not (a bit of misinformation I have seen on this forum too much for my comfort level and I correct whenever it appears, last time was with AnnaK--not sure where it started or who started it) and, IMHO, this was useful info in the OP's thread since he was asking about the k-1005 test kit, which, other than the smaller comparator, which only has an effect om pH and demand tests, is otherwise functionally equivalent to the K-2005 so he really just needed the stand alone FAS-DPD kit.

The only other people besides myself that gave the OP accurate info on their question were giroup01 and BigDave. Even you dropped the ball, Ben, when you referred to the K-2005 instead of the K-1005. Carl, I don't know where your discussion of the K-1000 came in but your post was just wrong:

Add that to the K-2005 and you have the K2006. The K-1000 OTO test kit from Taylor upgrades the OTO and pH test to the same as the K-2006,
The K-1000 has exactly the same pH test as the K-1005 and included both acid and base demand tests. The pH test in the K-2005 and K-2006 is different and while not haveing as wide a range does have geater precision on the pH and demand tests. Neither the K-1005 nor the K-2005 have OTO, they both use DPD and are identical in this test. The K-2006 also does not have an OTO test. It has a DPD-FAS test.
and includes R-0014, rather than R-0004 for the pH test. R-0014 includes a chlorine neutralizer so it can read accurately in higher chlorine situations Both pH reagents have chlorine neutralizer as I stated before. (Chlorine makes pH read high). list on the K-1000 is about $10.

If you have the K-1515 and K-1000, the only other tests you need are the T/A, CYA, and CH tests (acid and base demand are worthless).
The OP had a K-1005 which has exactly the same TA, CYA, and CH tests that the K-2005/2006 have!

Carl

Even if someone is not familiar with the different test kits put out by Taylor a quick search of their website or even just putting K-1005 as a search term in Google would give you the info on that kit in question and the tests that it has.
IMHO, the first post of this thread should have stayed in the original thread since it directly addressed what the OP was asking about, the K-1005 iCare kit and clarifying some of the misinformation that was posted concerning the OP's question.

Second:
As far as demant tests, I already stated that they acid demand test is very useful when lowering TA.

Acid and base demand tests are NOT worthless. In fact they are quite useful when lowing TA

With high TA we all know it will take more acid to lower the pH to our target of 7.0 than with a lower TA. The acid demand test is a tool that will somewhat shorten what is a lengtly procedure.

For example, in a 10K pool with 'normal' TA of 100 ppm it takes just a bit over a quart of muriatic acid (in fact, 1 qt and 10 oz.) to lower the pH from 8.0 (not an unrealistic number for pH when the TA is high, btw) to 7.0 while in the same pool with a TA of 300 (not an uncommon number for someone who has problems with high TA fill water) it takes just under a gallon (115 oz.). General rule of thumb is to put a pint to a quart of acid in (for 10k gallons), wait, and test pH until it is where we want it. This makes what is a lengthy procedure even longer. If we do a demand test we can add our gallon of acid and start aerating. As pH rises we need to continue adding acid, if we do a demand test we know how much is needed to get us back to 7.0. In my own experience this cuts SIGNIFICANT time off what is needed to lower TA.

As far as base demand tests, We sometimes get people who have been using trichlor and have crashed their pH and TA. The general rule is to add half a box of borax and wait and test pH. We all know that it can sometimes take several boxes. With a demand test they will know how much soda ash is needed and it just so happens that they will need very close to exactly twice the amount of borax. In fact, it is so close we can just tell them to put in twice the amount of borax as soda ash.

If someone does not have a demand test then small doses and 'creeping up on the target' is the way to go but if we have testing at our disposal (and even many of our new members seem to have a K-2005) then why not use it?

As far at that goes, if we know that we need to increase the CYA by 40 ppm in a pool why are we telling people to add only half the required amount and, once again, make a lengthy process even longer?

I hope I have not stepped on anyone's toes with this reply but I invite any of you to find fault with what I said and post it.

[BigDave]

Id like to throw this 2 cents in: In the case that I need to use Muriatic Acid (I haven't yet), I'd like to know about how much to buy. I would gladly pay just as much for a quart that I need rather than a gallon and have to store the remainder.