Safe pH levels for vinyl pools

[SalemCastles]

It was wrong on so many levels that I just couldn't respond nicely.

[Watermom]

-- not sure what you meant but ................ maybe you meant what I was thinking. Adding a bunch of pool store goop to perfectly clear water often produces results such as these that Barry is now facing. Lesson most likely learned. Now, to get it back to perfectly clear!

[SalemCastles]

Yes that's what I was thinking ... if it ain't broken don't try to fix it.

[SalemCastles]

I'm sorry I have upset you however your post was such that it frustrated me. You must know why you are pouring this stuff in your pool BEFORE doing so or ask first as there are many here to help you. What are your numbers? What are the ingredients that you're using? As mentioned the only thing you need to prevent issues is chlorine, maintained at the correct levels and SUPPORTED by the correct balance and you will enjoy crystal clear great feeling water. The most important supporting factor being PH. Again I'm sorry for your trouble.

[SalemCastles]

If it was my pool I'd get your Dad to put in 20 - 25 oz of Cal Hypo every 2nd day ... raising your Chlorine by 4-5ppm. If he's going to test it then he can adjust as necessary but I would want to stay closer to 5ppm or more than on the lower side until you get some stabilization going for you.

[SalemCastles]

Since you haven't been measuring your numbers up until now it's possible your PH has been low for a fairly long time. It's true that a high acid level can damage your pool especially if you have metal components such as as a heater inline or low quality stainless steel ladder etc. but for practical reasons I wouldn't sweat it that much. If you can get the PH up a bit before you leave then all the better otherwise just go and have a great vacation and deal with it when you get back.

[SalemCastles]

pH Effects

The joint study investigated the effect on vinyl of water pH between 2.0 and 10.0. A total of 224 white, blue and black vinyl samples were exposed to the ambient temperature and water at various pH levels between 2.0 and 10.0 for an extended period of time. During the test period, the total alkalinity in the test water was maintained at 150 parts per million, calcium hardness was at 100 ppm and the starting cyanuric acid concentration was 100 ppm.

Tests were conducted with the free available chlorine maintained at either 1.5 ppm or 20.0 ppm (The low value was used because it reflects common sanitizer usage levels; the high value was chosen because intermediate levels had limited effects on the vinyl. Throughout all investigations, pH was observed as the more significant variable.)

The effects upon the vinyl of water pH in the 2.0 to 10.0 range were determined with the free chlorine maintained at 1.5 ppm. The results were as follows:

Exposed samples where pH was maintained in the 7.0 to 7.5 range exhibited no adverse effects on the vinyl.
The lower the water pH drops below 7.0, the greater the incidence of wrinkling, loss of tensile strength, elongation and fading. Low pH (the acidic range) was found to have a more adverse effect than high pH (the alkaline range).
As the pH increases above 7.6, the vinyl loses weight and expands.
The lower the water pH drops below 7.0, the greater the vinyl’s weight increase.


It is important to note that the vinyl material remained functional throughout the tests.

[SalemCastles]

Aylad ..you were in this thread..seems like it's just one big circle and stuff gets dropped and added to support whichever point of view. http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...yl-Pool-Liners

Anyhow:

+ OK pH range is 5 - 9
+ The idea of adding calcium carbonate scared him, because he said high pH is more damaging than low pH.
+ There are definitely variations in liner material quality, and there is imported knock-off material. But he thought the patterns (see website) are likely to indicate source fairly well.

Richard, you might want to talk to 'Flee-ler'.

Ben

Furthermore there seems to be some other theory's ... http://www.cgtpoolliners.com/cgt-tec...ulletin-10.htm

Research by both chemical suppliers and vinyl manufacturers have confirmed that wrinkles in swimming pool liners develop because of the growth of the liner's dimensions due to an excess of absorbed water. Technical articles published in the past have stressed the adverse affect of low pH as the main cause of liner growth. However, recent experiments have shown that high levels of sanitizers, whether bromine or chlorine are the primary cause behind excessive water absorption. If the sanitizer level is allowed to remain high, double triple or even four or five times the normal amount of water can be absorbed. Therefore, controlling sanitzer levels is the number one priority when maintaining proper water chemistry, which is essential, if wrinkling problems are to be avoided.

pH and cyanuric acid stabilizer levels are important secondary factors because they control the activity of the sanitizer.

I really care more about what is right then who is right ... balanced informed decisions are for each pool owner to make. Ruining a guys vacation because he's scared to death he might get a wrinkle in his pool liner doesn't seem too balanced to me.

[waterbear]

I really care more about what is right then who is right ... balanced informed decisions are for each pool owner to make. Ruining a guys vacation because he's scared to death he might get a wrinkle in his pool liner doesn't seem too balanced to me.

The point you seem to be missing is the point I made before. WHAT is causing the pH to drop and the TA to be depleted? Since we don't know the answer to that is it much safe to get the pH up BEFORE he leaves since we don't know how quickly the pH will drop. That is what is right!

[Watermom]

Ruining a guys vacation because he's scared to death he might get a wrinkle in his pool liner doesn't seem too balanced to me.

I don't think we ruined a guy's vacation. He came and asked for advice and that is what we gave him.