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Thread: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

  1. #1
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    Default Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    I just received a new borate test kit that is drop based. It's cheap, the instructions are easy and I'm guessing it's more accurate than a strip (I've never used a strip, that's why I'm guessing). The kit utilizes some of the reagents one would already have in any kit comparable to something like a K2006.

    I dont know if I can post the link or not - mods can you let me know, thanks.

    I was also trying to contact Waterbear specifically about this kit to get his opinion (I think he was an early borate adopter if I recall correctly), but don't have the capability to private message. Maybe he can contact me if he reads this.

  2. #2
    chem geek is offline PF Supporter Whibble Konker chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    You posted about this kit in this thread at TFP where I speculated on how it might work. This kit doesn't compete with the K-2006 and the Amazon links to Amato that help The PoolForum don't include a borate test strip so I don't see a problem with you posting the link here. It does look like an interesting kit with clever reuse of some K-2006 reagents (R-0009 acid and R-0010 base; also R-0007 chlorine neutralizer) plus a couple of new reagents S-0009 and S-0010.

    Since the kit is sold by a vendor in Canada, I wonder if importing it into the U.S. will have the high duty problems the Taylor kits have going the other way. Though the expense of the Taylor kits going to Canada is from the exclusive distributor Lowry & Associates, their high price is to cover the high costs for the paperwork/duties to import "hazardous" chemicals in the kit. The two added reagents in the kit are likely just Bromocresol green pH indicator dye and mannitol (a sugar substitute).

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    waterbear is offline Lifetime Member Sniggle Mechanic waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars waterbear 4 stars
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    I tend to agree with chem geek as to what is in the kit. It is functionally going to give you the equivalent of the old (and I believe discontinued) Proteam borate test kit and will be the indicator dye (bromthymol blue, not bromcresol green) and mannitol. The test is time consuming and I really feel the LaMotte strips profise enough precision for borate testing in a pool (having tested MANY times with both the Proteam kit and the LaMotte strips and gotten resutls that were "close enough for government work" every time!

    Perhaps giroup01 can comment on this. I know he has had some links with the company selling this but his sig now indicates he is retired.

    However, it seems that private messages have been disabled in the fourm so I cannot contact him even though he is currently online.
    Last edited by waterbear; 06-30-2011 at 02:02 PM.
    Retired pool store and commercial pool maintenance guy.

  4. #4
    giroup01 is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst giroup01 0
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    In a nutshell, the Proteam titration is a base-demand test, you’re increasing the pH of the sample to a certain point (in this case 7.6). It’s the opposite of the TA test in your Taylor kit where you’re lowering the pH (to 4.5). It uses a 20 mL sample size. 1 drop of titrant = 2 ppm as boron.

    The Proteam kit has 4 reagents:

    PS1 is sulfuric acid (an acid),
    PS2 is bromothymol blue (a pH indicator, range 6.0 to 7.6),
    PS3 is sodium hydroxide (a base) and
    PS4 is mannitol (a sweetener, also known as a sugar alcohol).

    To begin the Proteam test you need to adjust the pH of the sample to 7.6, this is done with PS1 (the acid), PS3 (the base) and PS2 (the pH indicator). The first blue color you get indicates pH 7.6.

    When that’s done you add mannitol to the sample. Mannitol reacts with boric acid and forms a strong acid that drops the pH of the sample – hence the yellow color you observe if there is boron present.

    From there you add the base drop wise (PS3) until you get back up to pH 7.6. That’s the second blue color you observe. The number of drops used to get there multiplied by 2 gives you the boron concentration in parts per million.

    In your Taylor test kit you’ll discover that reagent R-0009 is sulfuric acid (like PS1) and reagent R-0010 is sodium hydroxide (like PS2). These Taylor reagents are more concentrated than Proteam’s counterparts, we therefore needed to find an “appropriate” sample volume and a corresponding drop equivalency . All you’re missing are mannitol and bromothymol blue, which we supply.

    The biggest sample volume available with the Taylor gear is 44 mL with the comparator bloc of the K-2000 series kits. We wanted to keep things very simple, we didn’t want to get into diluting sample with DI water, didn’t want a sample volume of say 52.6 mL and things like that.

    Testing with many different standardized boron solutions (and many pools using borates) were made with both the Proteam kit and the Taylor reagents. The equivalency of “1 drop = 4.5 ppm” was determined that way – it comes very very close (to within a drop) to Proteam’s kit.

    Luckily, borates dosage is not critical, you’ll hear anything from 30 to 50 to 80 ppm.

    The reagents supplied with our borates drop kit allow you to perform a titration test for borates using equipment you already have, so the cost of the kit is very very low, cheaper than the strips, and you get much better precision.

    Using the popular SpeedStir stirrer speeds up the testing quite a bit.
    Reseller of Taylor water-testing products for Canada

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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    Thank you giroup01. Next question. The borate test add on can be shipped to the US, correct?
    Retired pool store and commercial pool maintenance guy.

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    giroup01 is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst giroup01 0
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    I don't see why not, it's a low-value shipment (about $8 US), no hazmat, nothing toxic.
    Reseller of Taylor water-testing products for Canada

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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear View Post
    The test is time consuming and I really feel the LaMotte strips profise enough precision for borate testing in a pool (having tested MANY times with both the Proteam kit and the LaMotte strips and gotten resutls that were "close enough for government work" every time!

    Perhaps giroup01 can comment on this. I know he has had some links with the company selling this but his sig now indicates he is retired.

    However, it seems that private messages have been disabled in the fourm so I cannot contact him even though he is currently online.
    I did this test today, and it was not time consuming at all. The colour changes were easy to see and the instructions that came with the kit were concise and easy to follow.

    I didn't even think to use my speed stir which I received at the same time. Oh well. Test indicated only 36ppm (I suspected I was low). I'm about to add three boxes of Mule Team and will retest in a couple days. This won't show accuracy, but it will show if the test kit works properly, as after adding three boxes, I should definitely get a higher reading when I test again.

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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    Here is the kit

    http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/...tes/p_129.html

    and the instructions...you can see they are quite simple.

    http://piscines-apollo.com/docs/ap_borates_en_ins.pdf

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    chem geek is offline PF Supporter Whibble Konker chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars chem geek 4 stars
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    I just bought the kit for shipment to the U.S. While the kit itself was $9.99 CAD, the shipping was $13.41 CAD. This was basically $24. It would be better to buy some other things to combine in the shipment, but I just thought I'd get this kit right now as I'm well-stocked with everything else I need for testing.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Drop Based Borate Test Kit.

    Giroup,

    Is the Piscines-Apollo store you? What happened to Lowry?

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