kjh9835's pool

[kjh9835]

Mods: sorry if this is a double post. I posted this morning, it didn't appear to have be sent due to slow internet connection, I left computer, came back and it was still on the screen so I am tryng again. Windy here today, live in country where slight breeze interferes with connection, my apologies if it is sent twice.

I have an Intex 18x48 above ground metal frame pool filled with well water. It's been up and running about two weeks. This is my second year as a pool owner, last year had a few issues but nothing major til the end of the year so we just drained it and stored it. Now it has issues and I have questions:

1) Does it matter what order I correct the chemical levels? If so, please advise on what order. When using different chemicals, what is the best time frame to wait to add a different one? Is a few hours sufficient or should I wait 24 hours?

2) I cannot keep FC in the pool, it goes from 20 (deep purple on test strip) to zero in a matter of hours. I used stabliizer per pkg directions once I got the chlorine to 10 (stroke of luck it was good at the time I added stabilizer) I have added dollar store bleach, used shock n swim 3 times and have 2-3" tablets in a floater. My pool is in direct sunlight but shouldn't the stabilizer help prevent this loss? Yesterday morning it was really high so I took out the floater, now it's 10 again so I put in more stabilizer and the floater this morning.

3) I can see the print liner but the water is hazy. I used clarifier, 7 oz every 36 hours three times, it did nothing. I called the chemical help line on Thursday about the cloudy water. My TA is high (test strip goes to teal at 240), my result is more blue than green so I assume it's higher than 240. I have since added nearly 20 pounds of ph minus (2 pounds every 8 hours) but it has not changed one bit. The ph is lower (now 6.4) but the TA is still the same color and I test it twice a day so basically I feel I've wasted $50 of chemicals. Why is it not working?


4) Vaccuming the bottom: When the water is hazy, there is sediment on the bottom esp at the edges. I have spent at least one hour twice daily for days sucking junk off the bottom but the water gets cloudier and cloudier the more I move around therefore I cannot see where I've been/not been so I just keep on cleaning until my arms give out. I have let the pump run continuously and rinsed the paper (A) filter each time I've added more chemicals. I usually change it weekly. The surface is cleaned both manually and with a surface skimmer so I'm not getting alot of debris just stirring up the sediment on the bottom. I think it is undissolved chemicals but how can I prevent this if I'm not supposed to dilute the powders first?

5) I use algaecide weekly per pkg directions so I don't think that's why the water is cloudy (possible cause in troubleshooting guide I read)

6) Even though I added stabilizer my CYA level has not changed, it's been zero since I filled the pool.



I know this is lengthy but I'm trying to give you enough info to make it easier for you to advise me. I now have a logbook next the chemicals so I can track everything I do and not have to try to remember when I did what at what time on what day.

Thank you so much for any responses and advice.

kjh9835

[aylad]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!!

#1. When adjusting chemicals, normally you first want to get "some" chlorine into the water. Next, get your pH adjusted to between 7.0 and 7.8. With yours currently at 6.4, this becomes the priority for you, because pH lower than 7.0 is too acidic and can damage your pool liner. Get some Borax and get it into the skimmer, very slowly, breaking up clumps--I'd start with a couple of cups--just add it slowly enough that you don't clog your piping. Let it circulate for a couple of hours, retest pH, and add more Borax if necessary. When you get your pH above 7.0, then you can stop there for now. After pH and chlorine, then you need to get the stabilizer in the pool, which, if added through the skimmer, can take up to 4-5 days to dissolve and register. If you have added it via broadcasting, then you've probably already vacuumed out what you added and need to start over. The pucks will add some, but it will be awhile before it gets high enough to register. AFter all that is under control, THEN I would start worrying about your alk.

#2. The reason you can't keep chlorine in the pool is probably that your stabilizer is zero. Until you have some CYA in the water, you'll need to add chlorine a couple of times daily to replace what the sun is consuming. If you test at night and again in the morning before the sun is on the pool, and you still have lost chlorine, then you probably need to shock the pool by bringing your chlorine level up to 12-15 ppm.

#3. Forget the clarifiers, they are just adding chlorine demand to your pool. If you have adequate chlorine in the pool, and your filter is working properly, the water will clear up. For now, I wouldn't add anything except chlorine, CYA, and Borax. As far as lowering the alk, when you get to that point, you're only supposed to lower the pH to 7.0, and then aerate your water to raise the pH again before adding more acid. That way the TA is ratcheted down again and the pH stays high enough not to damage your pool. Here's the procedure.. http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/lowe...p-by-step.html but you're going to need a good, drop-based test kit instead of strips in order to do it correctly.

#4, If you'll add the powders to the skimmer, very slowly, then they can sit on the cartridge and dissolve. You'll just have to not add too many at a time to keep from clogging up the filter. The other option is to put the powdered chems in a sock and suspend them in front of your return, so it dissolves straight into the water and doesn't gunk up your filter.

#5. Forget the algaecide, it's adding chlorine demand, and quite possibly adding to the haziness of your water, depending on what type you use. The only one we recommend here is Polyquat 60, and even then only in certain circumstances. If you keep adequate levels of chlorine in the pool, you don't need algaecide.

#6. See response #1.

Welcome to the forum!!

Janet

[kjh9835]

Yay, I found it. Thank you Janet for getting it to show up. I did find it one time under "new posts", decided to print your response, internet went off (yet again) and when I came back, of course it was not a new post and I could not find it. Then I tried to figure out how to take a screen shot (too computer illiterate to do that), came back here again and found it. Many thanks. I had already printed off the step by step on how to lower TA from poolsolutions but it's an hour to town and back and did not get supplies today as I was waiting for response here to see what else I needed.

Off to the store now for supplies and drop test kit. Wish me luck.

kjh9835

[kjh9835]

I'm back with baking soda, bleach, borax and a 6 way drop test kit.
FC >5 (shows up deep yellow)
pH 7.2
TA/CA 300
CYA 40

I added stabilizer this morning. There is residue on the bottom of the pool so I'm off to vacuum it again then if it needs more in the morning, I'll put it thru the skimmer.

Thank you again,
kjh9835

[Watermom]

I don't know what happened to your post that I moved this morning. That was weird. We've asked Ben to figure out why you couldn't see it.

At any rate, I hope you didn't add much stabilizer since you are now reporting that it is 40. That is a great level and you really don't want it higher. How did you add it? If you added it to the skimmer, can you rinse the cartridge to remove it? Or, did you broadcast it across the pool? If so, vac to waste to remove it. You really don't want it higher than 40-50. With a CYA of 40, you'll want to shock the pool up to 15ppm and try and keep it there by frequent testing and adding more bleach any time you find that it has dropped. There is no such thing as adding bleach too often when you are trying to clear a pool. I estimate your volume to be around 7000 gallons. In a pool this size, each quart of 6% bleach will add about 2ppm of chlorine. You can use that as a reference to help you figure out how much bleach to add each time you test to get back to 15ppm.

Run the pump 24/7 right now.

EDIT -- I wanted to thank you for becoming a subscriber. We appreciate that as it helps the forum online.

[kjh9835]

Again, I apologize if these end up being duplicate posts. I have lousy internet service and don't know when they appear unless I log out and come back. If they aren't there, I repost.

I broadcast the stabilizer this morning but have cleaned the bottom twice since then so most of it is gone. Glad to have the bleach ratio info, I wrote that down in my logbook for future reference.

Your welcome on the subscriber, I'll gladly support anyone/anysite that provides helpful information esp when it comes to things I know very little about and saving money. I can return the un-used chemicals, get more than that back not to mention what I won't be spending in the weeks to come. I told my sister about your site also (she has the same pool in TN).

There's no way to hang a sock directly over my return spout but I can make a sheer fabric bag tomorrow with hanging loops to go around the top edge of the pool and still be long enough to reach the return spout the correct distance for dispensing chemicals. If the chemicals damage the bag, I'll just make another. I made my own larger size debris bag for the vacuum since ours disappeared. Knee highs work but they stretch out too much. I had planned to make an XL size leaf/debris skimmer with a hula hoop and sheer fabric but bought a surface skimmer that hangs on the side instead for $25. Other than the $14 here, it's the best thing I've spent money on for the pool.

Good night,
kjh9835

[Watermom]

Since you are reporting that your CYA is 40, don't add any more CYA. Do not do the hang a sock in front of the return thing. Your CYA is already high enough. When you removed the CYA from the pool floor, I assume that you vacuumed it up which means it is now sitting in your filter dissolving and adding more CYA which you don't want. So, backwash your filter and get it out of there.

One other note --- remember that new members have to have their posts approved by a moderator before they appear on the forum. When you post, your post goes to a moderation queue to wait until one of the Pool Forum staff reads it and releases it from the queue. So, you will not see your posts immediately upon submitting them. Usually one of us in online most of the time, but sometimes there may be a couple of hours when none of us are. But, typically your post will be modded in within a couple of hours if not sooner.

[kjh9835]

Had already gone to bed when you replied. I did wash the filter out after cleaning the bottom and after testing this morning and reading your post, I put a new one in since these were my readings:
FC orange (test only goes to 5 so I figure it's plenty shocked)
pH 7.5
TA/CA 250
CYA 60 (so new filter to keep more out).

Since my bottle of CYA solution is only good for three tests (22 ml bottle, takes 7ml each test), I'm assuming I can purchase single bottles of solutions? Nearest pool store is quite a drive for me and I go back to work today so online is my best option. Who uses what company for the best prices/shipping options?

Once I get home tonight, should I start on the lowering the TA level with the step by step method I printed off yesterday?

I understand about the post approval before appearing, I usually won't look right away as it takes time for other members to read/reply anyway. I just have trouble with my internet and didn't want to aggarvate anyone by having two or three single posts of mine show up and have to be removed. I usually have to post, copy that post, submit, log off, log back on, refresh then paste my post in again before it will even give me the message "waiting on approval". It's not your site, but any forum I visit. I just deal with it but sometimes I do have duplicates show up.

Have a great day and thanks again for your replies/assistance.

kjh9835

[Watermom]

How does your water look today? Yes, you can go ahead and start working to lower the alk. It is a gradual process so don't expect huge changes quickly.

I'll let someone else advise you where to buy CYA reagents but to answer your question, yes, you can buy bottles of it. In fact, you can buy much larger bottles of it than what comes in the kit.

While you are doing the online ordering of the CYA reagent, do yourself a big favor and go ahead and order a good test kit. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C which is the same kit with larger bottles of some of the most used reagents. If you order through the Amazon link in my signature, the Pool Forum makes a little money on the sale which helps keep the forum up and running. Only buy if the seller is Amato Industries, however. Some other sellers are substituting the K-2005 which you do NOT want.

Regarding making duplicate posts -- don't worry about it if it does happen. One of us will just delete the extra one. Glad you found us and hope we are helping! You have a great day, too.

[aylad]

I believe you can also order reagent refills from Amato Industries, but you can also get them directly frrom the Taylor site (taylortechnologies.com). I usually get mine from www.spspoolspas.com, since they have one of the best prices I've found. You might look at the instructions that came with your 5-way kit and see if there's a phone number there to reorder reagents, and compare their prices.

I would wait to start lowering your alk until the pool shocking is done, because the amount of acid you use at a time to lower the pH and alk depends on an accurate pH result, which you won't have when your chlorine level is above 10 ppm. With chlorine levels above 10 ppm, pH results tend to read falsely high, so you might end up accidentally lowering your pH by too much by depending on a false high number. Get your chlorine issues adjusted first, and then when you can let the chlorine drift back down to "normal" ranges, then start working on the TA.

Janet