Mustard Algae

[AndreaA]

Well... I'm starting to get a little frustrated... My pool is still green and I've run out of testing stuff sense I've been tested three times a day for 7 days now. We keep having to vacuum the pool everyday and I'm brushing what I can... I've added probably 15 or 20 bottles of bleach at this point and it still looks BAD. I know my FC levels are good and I know I've maintained them at the shock level for this entire time. My husband keeps wanting to shut off the pump and let it all settle to the bottom but I keep telling him to give it more time.. I feel like I can't keep fighting him on this but I'm just not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Please advise.......

[AndreaA]

We do not fill from a well. But have questioned whether we have metals in the water before. We've had it tested but it comes up with nothing... I do believe we might have it but hate to sink $100 bucks in it if I'm not 100% sure.

Thanks again for helping us!

[PoolDoc]

I'm not clear what's going on. You have an algae or metals problem -- green -- and you have a brown spots problem --- which is what?? --- and you have a stuff in the skimmers -- again, what's that from?? -- problem.

Can you clarify what the different things are?

As a general rule, if stuff is filtering out, you want to keep filtering. And, if chlorine levels drop OVERNIGHT, you need to keep adding chlorine. During the day, levels can drop because of sunlight, but if they drop overnight, then than almost always means you had stuff in the pool that chlorine is 'burning up'.

Several things to consider here:

FIRST, if your CYA was higher last fall than it is now, there's a good chance you've got stuff in your pool ('waste' products from having bacteria 'eat' your CYA) that will take a LOT of chlorine to get rid of. But, usually this will show up in increased CC levels.

SECOND, if you aren't 'winning' against the algae, it's winning against you. I've seen algae develop that could consume huge amounts of chlorine, at very high levels. If you are not seeing the algae improve, it's winning. If 5 gallons added in the PM doesn't produce improvement by the AM, go to 8 gallons. And if 8 gallons doesn't work, go to 12. [IMPORTANT => I'm assuming you're sure it's algae -- slime on the rails or other smooth surface (liner, but not plaster), is one reliable indicator; yellow or green deposits that brush clear is another.)

THIRD, it's very possible to have BOTH left-over CYA and chlorine resistant algae, and that will definitely make it even harder (ie, require higher levels of chlorine) to clean up.

FOURTH, almost anything you could add to 'help' will make it worse. If you've already added 'helpers', they are probably already part of the problem. This includes things like YellowOUT or Yellow Treat or algicides or clarifiers. If you have added such things, tell us what, since it can affect how to proceed most effectively. Phosphate removers won't make the algae or CYA product problem worse -- might even help with the algae -- but will cloud your pool something terrible, so it will LOOK worse.

FIFTH, sorry you are out of testing stuff. When you refill, don't test that much. Really, the only thing you need to be testing right now is chlorine, PM and AM, and pH -- but no more than 1x per day and ONLY when the chlorine is below 5ppm (or 15ppm with a Taylor kit). But, as long as you aren't adding anything other than bleach, you don't have to test anything but chlorine.

SIXTH, turning off the filter to let things settle is a good idea ONLY after everything is dead . . . and may be not then. Don't do it before the algae has ALL given up the ghost.

SEVENTH, I may have missed it, but I don't see what sort of pool you have. If it's an AG pool with a sand filter, or a small AG pool with any sort of filter except DE, it will take a long time to get back to clear sparkly blue. Trying to hurry won't help. If you REALLY want to hurry, install an oversized DE filter.

EIGHTH, if the problem is clear green WITHOUT algae, it may be iron. Iron can come from well water or old water company distribution pipes. This is a complicated issue, that I don't understand fully, but iron can be in the water in forms that are easy to get out (turns orange instantly in the presence of chlorine) or in forms that are very hard to clean up. If the problem is NOT algae (no slime, no brush-able green), let us know if it's possible that it's iron, ie, did the water in your pool come through iron or steel pipes on the way to your pool.

Good luck!

Ben / PoolDoc

[AndreaA]

Ok. Let me start from the beginning.


We purchased the home in Nov 2010 with a clear and what seemed to be a perfect pool. The pool was maintained by a local pool store and was in good working order. It's a 16x32 inground pool with vinyl liner. The pool has 3 jets and a maindrain but only one skimmer. I have a sand filter with two pipes coming off of it.. One for the right side of the pool with two jets and maindrain and the left side runs one jet, skimmer. We knew when we purchased the pool that the liner had just been replaced the pervious year and all the pumps/filers stuff was about 7 years old. We also knew that the pool had a natural spring under it and we would need to pump the water from under the liner every few days (therefore we purchased another pump to hook up to a plumbing line that was purposely put in by the installers that runs under the pool. We have that pump in place to ONLY pump the ground water.

Once we moved in to the home.. There was a bucket of chlorine tablets that the pool guy was adding in the skimmer bucket. We continued to keep at least one tab in the skimmer (note it's winter time at this point and the water is very cold) Well we noticed that the tablets were not dissolving and the skimmer was not sucking water in. My husband figured out that we had a clog in the pipe that ran from the skimmer to the pump. We worked and worked to get the junk out of it... we were successful!! It was a mass of acorns that the pool guy prob just sucked up with the vacuum (STUPID). Well by this time is was EARLY spring here water was still cold but we live in Georgia and have lots of trees in our yard so it constantly rains (leaves, tree blooms, pollen, more tree blooms) and the water was getting really dirty so we knew we HAD to fix the skimmer problem and have the water tested. Once the skimmer problem was fixed we were told by our local pool store that we did not have any chlorine in the water (note the tabs were not dissolving) so I knew this was going to be an issue. Well we purchased two bags of powder shock and before our eyes our pool turned green. IT WAS CRAZY!!! So I marched back up to the pool store and they tested the water again said all of our levels were good and to wait it out. We did. Let the pool run 24/7 for 5 days with a high shock level. We had so much cloudiness in our water we couldn't see the bottom of the shallow end. On day 7 the pool guy told me to use a granulated shock that you mix with water and add it to my skimmer. I also started to notice a sand like substance on the bottom of the pool.. Told him about that as well and he had me add Yellow Treat.. So at this point I had added 1/2 gallon of granuated shock and a whole bottle of yellow treat... The pool ran for another day and we didn't see any improvement and were advised to add the remaining amount of shock. Started to think something was wrong with my filter since I had all of these particles floating around... Called the pool store again and they had me add Phosfree saying that I must have Phosphates in my water... Added that... NOTHING.. Then I called them back PISSED. So they had there guy come out and he tried to add DE but the DE just shot out of my jets... So he advised us to change the sand in our fliter and if we could to floc the pool once it was complete.. We didn't buy a floc just turned the darn pool off for 3 days and let it all settle (note hubby waiting on backordered sand at pool store).. It seem to work. We vacuumed to waste and would refill and again...It seemed to get the water clear but cloudy.We then changed the sand and kept water levels good for about a month. Then it warmed up and I wasn't testing like I should have and I had a thick film of yellow pollen on the top of my pool..(note I still ran the filter 8 hours a day) I tested and my chlorine was at 0.. CRAP! Added two big bottles of bleach and BOOM.. green again. I've been shocking the heck out of it... Keeping it above 15ppm but the water is green and I have sand like stuff on the bottom. When I brush I have a brown cloud.


I kept thinking I had metals in the water because I had added the some of the spring water (STUPID) but we were new to owning it and just thought i was recycling. Once I added I could see gold flakes in the water. (note-- this was before all of my issues). But I kept having it tested and NOTHING. Then people were telling me that I must have that hard to kill mustard algae because for the brown powder the brushes up on the bottom that looks like sand. My walls do not feel slimy.

I've asked the guy who took care of the pool while it was on the market if he used that soft swim he said no... I asked him if they used a metal squest he said no. But of course he tried to sell me one... But at this point I'm scared to take any advise :-(

I have been testing morning noon and night but only my chlorine and that's what I'm out of....


I hope I'm not leaving anything out here but it's a lot to write.

Thanks for your help.

[PoolDoc]

Ok, you've got a mess. (I think you may have worked that bit out already, without my help)

Lessee. You've added Yellow Treat and PhosFree. You've put DE in via the skimmer and it shot back into the pool. And, there may be other stuff in there from last summer.

Also, you've got brown dust, intermittently green water and gold (??) flakes. Plus you've got a spring somewhere near that you can get water from?

Plus, you've got acorns, leaves, pollen and other bits of nature's bounty in your pool.

Eureka! I've got it -- you're trying to make hobo stew in forest colors?

Or, maybe not.

But . . . you can officially color me uncertain. I don't know what's happening. I've never known a liner pool to have algae without having a slimy feel to the liner. Of course, I've mostly worked with large concrete commercial pools, so maybe you can have algae without slime. But, adding chlorine to algae doesn't make it turn colors. I've never seen gold flakes in a pool.

There's another possibility: if you've added enough Yellow Treat (sodium bromide) you are going to create brown bromine gas when you add chlorine at lower pH. Possibly, it could look green against a blue liner. But brown dust usually either means dead algae or iron precipitating out of the water.

At least one thing seems clear. When you add DE to a properly functioning sand filter, it won't return to the pool. Let me suggest the following:

1. Buy 5 boxes or so of borax, and start adding it (slowly, 1 box at a time, thru the skimmer with the pump running -- do NOT choke the skimmer!) till you get the pH to 7.6 or above. (Some of the not-so-nice reactions that can occur when cleaning up a pool are nicer at higher pH levels.)

2. Vacuum and clean up all the leaves and large debris.

3. Have your filter serviced with new filter sand -- check the bags the service guy users; do NOT let him use unlabeled sand. (If it's labeled sandblast sand, report the sand particle size info HERE before he installs it. Only trust size info printed on the bag, or else from a mfg sheet correlating the bag label with sand particle size. "JC20" is a size you do NOT want.)

4. Meanwhile, keep your pH up above 7.5 and your chlorine up above 3 ppm.

Report back once the filter's fixed, or if anything strange happens before then. If you maintain chlorine and pH, and do NOT add anything else*, there's a fair chance your pool will be on its way to recovery by then. If not, we'll start there.

PoolDoc

* You will need to add a lot of P.O.P. -- Pool Owner Patience! If you get impatient, and add more pool store goo, you'll almost certainly make things worse.

[AndreaA]

Well. I guess I did leave out that he changed the sand during our floc process (which we never added floc we just let the dust settle for 3 days). The sand changing was in the first round of green mess about a month ago.

Our current PH is at 7.8 but we have high chlorine level of 16.5. I'm hoping and praying that I have just enough drops to check it in the morning (trying to see if I can maintain it overnight).

The natural spring is under the pool. We just pump the water every few days to keep the liner from bubbling. When I pumped the water from under the liner during the winter the water was completely clear and when we were doing all the vacuuming and wasting from all the junk the water level would drop. I only "once" added the spring water back into the pool.. Maybe 10-20 gallons when I realized I had sparkles in the spring water.. Once I noticed that I completely stopped adding the spring water.. But right after that is when we added shock and the pool turned green.

I do know that I have some staining on our steps and latter that is orange.. Not sure if that's a metal or just typical for a pool but this brown dust looks like sand on the bottom of the pool and collects really bad in the shallow end... But when I brush (not the sand stuff on the bottom) I have brown clouds.

Does this sound like mustard algae?

I am making some form of yucky stew here.. And these trees are not giving us a break.. We have 4-5 different kinds and they all shed on different days and seasons therefore I have constant crap in the pool :-(

[madwil]

There's lots of iron pyrite (fools gold) in Georgia, and lots of clay (I believe high in Iron content). The orange staining is possibly due to clay. I'm not the expert, but it sounds like somewhere that ground water is contaminating the pool- explains the orange stain (from the clay) and the gold flakes (iron pyrite). Is there anyway rain is washing into the pool? Or any way that your "spring" is more than a spring ( like, flooding around your filter/pump, so spring water is getting into the system there)?

[AndreaA]

I don't think that I have rain water flowing into the pool and/or spring water entering by accident. I did however add the spring water a few months back... One time!

I could see how I might have a metal problem but the brown dust makes me think I have mustard algae.

I did have enough drops to test last night and this morning. It was 16.5 last night and 15.5 this morning. Is that a significant drop??

PoolDoc and Watermom-- could you have a metal person look at this thread and let me know if this is a metal problem too?

Thanks so much for all of your help!