A few thoughts about CYA

[OddJob]

The pool is an above ground pool that holds ~21000 (I think it is 18'x39'). We had a pool party yesterday with ~12 swimmers and last night I added a gallon of bleach. I just tested it (the kids are already back in the pool) and FC=2 CC=0

Some stats: I'm in CA. Our elevation is ~3000'. We have a solar cover that we use every night; to get the water warm, to keep out the debris, and help keep the water level constant. I vacuum ~2 - 3 times a week. I run the filter (sand filter - 6way valve - if you need more details let me know, i'm not sure about the pump/filter) at night when I add the bleach and turn it off before bed.

Any other thoughts/questions?

[aylad]

According to my calculations, 1 gallon of 6% bleach in your pool should take you to about 3 ppm chlorine. Have you ever tested it again in the morning before the sun hits it to see what your residual is? Do you ever add bleach again during the day?

Janet

[OddJob]

I haven't tested it in the am before the sun hits it, but I will and post the results. I do not add bleach until the evening, when we are done for the day.

I don't know the cost saving measures (yet) because in the previous years we were pool-stored and bought $$ chlorine there. So, compared to previous years we are saving money just by buying bleach at WalMart.

I will have to add CYA soon because of our vacation. I'd like to swim for perhaps a month more, but it won't be daily since the kids go back to school right after vacation and it will start cooling off at night. We are spoiled by our warm water!

I haven't had to add the other two B's, yet. Just bleach so far.

[waterbear]

I haven't had to add the other two B's, yet. Just bleach so far.

If you are staying with unstabilized chlorine such as bleach you will need very little baking soda since unstabilized chlorine and lower TA is a more pH stable combination. Also, you would probably never need borax unless you actually overdose on acid when lowering your pH (unless you decide to add 50 ppm borates to your water for their algaestatic and pH control benefits, but that is a whole different thing).
The chemicals you are most likely to need are
Acid (either muriatic or dry)
Bleach (for chlorination and shocking)
CYA (stabilizer)

Just goes to show that pool care is REALLY as easy as ABC!

[OddJob]

Just goes to show that pool care is REALLY as easy as ABC!

I agree!

I'm somewhat tempted to ask my parents to come by the house and add some bleach when we are gone and run the filter. And *not* add CYA ... what do you guys think? (I don't add bleach everyday ... if we aren't swimming, I'll check it at night and only add it if necessary. I haven't kept track, but it seems if we aren't swimming, I haven't had to add bleach). Therefore, if the keep an eye on it and add bleach every other day or so ...????

[Watermom]

Sure. Why not. I can't imagine how you aren't losing all your chlorine to the sun every day. That is strange to me.

[aylad]

It's strange to me too, that you aren't losing all your chlorine to the sun, but if it's worked for you so far, then I don't see any reason to "fix what ain't broke". If they can add the bleach at the same frequency that you do, then I don't see where the pool will know the difference............

Janet

[gordyjamz]

Hi there, I originally started this thread last week. I was thinking of trying no CYA next year after a full drain/refill after liner replacement. I was talking to a friend of mine down in AZ yesterday, and he was telling me I should consider bromine. He said he uses it and has had far less problems than when he had chlorine. He also said that bromine doesn't require stabilizer, and that CYA has no inhibiting factors to it. I told him that I thought they only use that stuff on spas and jacuzzis. HE said they do, but a lot of people use it for pools also. Would this be an alternative to bleach? Maybe just another crazy idea poppin in my head, as I am skeptical about it. Any thoughts?


Ken

[waterbear]

advantages of bromine over chlorine in an outdoor pool:
1. none

disadvantages of bromine over chlorine in an outdoor pool:
1. cannot be stabilized against lost from UV light so chemical use is much higher and often there is no sanitizer in the water when it is needed most during the heat of the day because it has burned off (THIS is why bromne doesn't require stabilizer. It can't be stabilized! Hot tubs are kept covered to keep the heat in so they are not exposed to sunlight for long periods of time and indoor pools, well, obviously!)

2. more expensive requires more chemicals (sodium bromide to create the bromide bank, an oxidizer--usually chlorine, and bromine tabs, which normally contain organic bromide and an organic chlorine source.

3. bromine is a known sensitizer

4. Does not eliminate the use of chlorine since chlorine is the usual oxidizer in bromine pools. MPS can also be used but is much more expensive and MPS is also a sensitizer.

5. Bromine has a decided 'chemical' smell. Bromamines have a 'fishy' smell but are not eliminated since they are considered to be effective sanitizers, unlike chloramines. However there is some debate on this.

6. If pH drops low the formation of toxic elemental bromine is very likely and dangerous. Bromime tabs ARE acidic (like trichlor) so this is a possibility of you do not keep watch on TA and pH on a regular basis. I have seen it happen more than once!

There are some advantages in hot tubs and possibly in indoor pools (but indoor pools are also a subject of debate).

I still don't understand why you have this aversion to CYA. If you use an unstabilized chlorine and just add the proper amount of CYA to bring it up to 50 ppm you will not have any problems from overstabilization. Higher CYA levels can actually translate into less chlorine usage in many instances. The key is learning and understanding what you are doing and it's not really hard.


Also understand that I have a much better knowledge of bromine chemistry than the majority of people out there and have written guides for it's use on some other forums and have been quoted and referenced on at least one hot tub site (that I know of).
Also realize that lots of people using bromine are using it wrong (just like the number of people using chlorine that are using it wrong).

The key is education about the sanitizer you are using._

Hope this clears up some confusion.

[chem geek]

I'm somewhat tempted to ask my parents to come by the house and add some bleach when we are gone and run the filter. And *not* add CYA ... what do you guys think?

As I posted before, you should have SOME CYA in the water, even if it's a low 20 or 30 ppm amount. Not having any CYA at all in a chlorine pool is bad on several counts. Not only will the chlorine break down in sunlight quickly, but it will be too strong unless you keep the level very, very low and that is pretty much impossible to do without automated dosing equipment and even then it's hard to maintain anything lower than 0.5 ppm FC reliably. So again, please add at least a small amount of CYA to the water.