CYA in a sock

[waterbear]

Polyvue,
AOnce they make it to the filter how do you know how long they take to dissolve?
Al

By putting in a known amount that will cause a certain ppm rise and testing the water. I have found that it usually takes anywhere from 48 to 72 hours of constant circulation for my CYA to reach the levels for which I dosed.

[PoolDoc]

Waterbear;

I'm not sure it's reasonable to try to settle the sock vs skimmer issue the way you think. The reason is 1 word: Intex!

There are now more Intex, or Intex type, pools out there than all the commercial pools and all the inground pools put together. And last time I checked, they don't have skimmers!

I bought one once, to try it. And, we tried to put the stabilizer in to the sidewall suction intake. We ended up with stabilizer all over the bottom of the pool.

There's at least one other reason to use a sock, besides a missing or broken skimmer: cal hypo feed systems!

Do you know what happens when you mix wet stabilizer with cal hypo? If not, don't try it: it DETONATES!

I've experimented with it a little, but it scares me, so a little is all. But, you haven't lived till you've stood in a pump room, biting your nails as you listen to a 60" steel sand filter that sounds like it's full of popcorn popping!

================================================== ============

You've also raised a larger issue, of variable and even wrong advice given here. It's an issue I'm aware of, and it concerns me.

There is no perfect solution.

Even if I wrote up a comprehensive guide to BBB pool care, and let you and Chem Geek and mods proof and correct it . . . it still wouldn't be perfectly correct: I'd just think it was, for awhile.

I do hope to put together a series of FAQs for the PoolForum over the winter. But, whether I'm able to do so depends on a number of things I'm not fully in control of . . . including my own ability to concentrate on such things for hours at a time.

I do see posts and responses that make me wince. But, if I try to jump into all of them, other things more critical to PF's survival will grind to a halt. I think the question for me is, are people generally better off coming here and following the advice here, or not?

I think the answer -- imperfect responses notwithstanding -- is still clearly "Yes!".

After the past 4 or 5 years, I find that fact a lot easier to be comfortable with than it used to be. The world's a broken place, and I'm a broken person, and I can't change that. If my efforts make it a little less broken than it was, well, I think that's enough reason to be content. Not that I don't want to make it better, but I'm more able now to try to do what I can, today, and worry less about the things I can't do, at least not today.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[CarlD]

I would like to add another note. That other forum you mentioned seems to like to latch on to one method of doing things and stick to that.

I remember being told quite clearly NOT to recommend my Shot Glass method of OTO dilution because they didn't want owners to be encouraged to use anything by FAS-DPD for chlorine, since FAS-DPD is really the best way. OK. Their forum, their rules.

That's their style and chosen modus operandi. A simple path with simple steps you don't need to choose from. One way, and only one way to do things. That's fine for them. It works for their site. It's not necessarily wrong, either.

But it's not our style here at Pool Forum and has never been. We are much more of the mind-set that if it works, and isn't dangerous, and we list all the caveats, there's no reason to discourage its usage.

There are LOTS of reasons why a particular technique (like the sock) may be the best way, but also where it may not. It took over TWO WEEKS for about a pound of CYA to dissolve into my pool in an old stocking my wife donated. It was right over the low return, too. I was patient but annoyed. Now I'm thinking it should have been in the skimmer.

Yet when I had an Intex, I had to dissolve CYA in a five gallon bucket, pour off what dissolved, refill, stir, wait, pour off...took over a day, but I didn't have CYA on the bottom. There, a sock would have been MUCH easier.

We will always be proponents of multiple paths to get to the same goal. All of us, Ben, Lisa, Janet, Al and myself ALL realize that while there are many WRONG ways to do something, there is generally more than one RIGHT way to do it, too!

All of us will always be looking for effective alternative methods that fit unusual circumstances. Please don't worry that we are going to adopt that "Only one way, the best way" style. It's just not us.

[waterbear]

Carl,
I was not worried about that here since I know Ben would put a stop to it fast but I frequent several forums and 'putting CYA in a sock' seems to be on it's way to becoming a TEKTAT. That is my real concern. (And I have been one of the first to say use a sock when the situation warrants it. Just not for the routine addition of CYA into a a pool with a skimmer.) As far as Ben's concern of calcium hypochlorite feeders, I do agree, but this is not a piece of equipment normally seen on residential pools. And I am aware that the intex donuts do not come with a skimmer. Heck, I sold enough of them and held customer's hands when they set them up. I usually recommended a set amount of dichlor to get the CYA up to speed in those cases. It dissolves fast and chlorinates at the same time.

[CarlD]

I LIKED my Intex donut! I always said that on a hot, lazy afternoon, in a floating pool chair, with a cold drink, the ball game on the radio, and shades, you can't tell the difference between a donut and a big pool! And that's experience talking.

How's that old saying go? "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!"

(But I like my 40' FantaSea a lot more! )

[PoolDoc]

Waterbear,

Adding CYA in a sock would only be a TEKTAT if people here were saying that that's the only way. If anyone is doing that, I'd like to know about those threads. I haven't seen the posts in question, so feel free to email me some links of ones you think I should check out (poolforum AT Gmail DOT com)

On the other hand, to say "probably the best way (for you) to add CYA to your pool is to use a sock" is not a TEKTAT.

There have been some really clueless people here this season. I haven't had to deal with then, because the mods have done it. And I know you end up getting a mindset of "I'll tell them this, because it's simple, and they probably won't be able to figure out a way to screw it up". That's not a TEKTAT.

If sometimes someone who wasn't quite at that level of clueless got told to use a sock, maybe that wasn't ideal, but heck, it still worked (I guess) and they can learn to use a skimmer later.

And, I don't have any problem with you adding, "But you can use a skimmer, too" posts to those threads. I'd just ask that you make sure, before you do, that the OP is not one of those posters who's struggling to figure out where the water goes.

If they are, that might not be the best place for a "use the skimmer" addition.

Thanks for your help on this!

Ben

[polyvue]

Polyvue,
A couple months ago I tried dissolving a couple cups of CYA granules in a gallon jug. Nope. Some did, most didn't. Kept pouring off the concentrated liquid into the skimmer and refilling and eventually after a couple weeks the solid was almost dissolved. Certainly didn't dissolve in 10 minutes. The granules are fine enough they will easily, or quickly, get past the skimmer and pump baskets. Once they make it to the filter how do you know how long they take to dissolve? I don't use the stuff personally. I smash up pucks.
Al

Well, my CYA is a bit low so I guess it's time I do an experiment. It's been my belief for some time that when CYA is added to my pool it can be detected in a fraction of the time suggested by those here and elsewhere... in hours, not days or weeks. But I'm conservative when adding chems and haven't tried to increase CYA 20 or 30 ppm all at once; perhaps I've been misled due to the imprecision of the test. The turbidity test doesn't exactly lend itself to the task.

And, even if the experiment supports my thinking (that all or nearly all of the CYA will be evident in testing within a few hours of application) I don't know how transferable this finding would be. Everyone's (IG) pool plumbing is a bit different, filter capacity, flow rates and head vary, etc.

So, I'll try to resolve this during the week, starting tomorrow night, by raising CYA 20 PPM. Got lots of melanine stored up. What the heck!

[waterbear]

Got lots of melanine stored up. What the heck!

err, melamine.

[CarlD]

I used to have a lot of melamine--but then we threw out my mom's 1950's unbreakable dishes....I hope they didn't get ground up and put into dog food!

[AnnaK]

My experience, for what it's worth:

Monday, 6/28, 06:30
ph 7.6
CYA 30 (consistent with previous tests over the past 4 weeks)

CYA goal 50. Per Pool Calculator, add 946 g CYA.

The CYA I use is mfg'd by Seaboard, 100% cyanuric acid, granular. I added 500 g slowly into the skimmer, basket removed, made sure all product was granules, no clumps. The 2-speed pump ran on 'high'. The CYA swirled in the pump pot for 15 - 20 minutes until it had all gone into the filter. At that point I set the pump to low and left it running.

According to the Pool Calculator, 500 g CYA in my pool would decrease pH by .2 and increase CYA by 11 ppm.

Tuesday, 6/29, 08:30:
pH 7.4
CYA 45

I can readily accept the difference in test results from the calculated expectation because a) the water volume can ever be just a close guess and b) variations in the 'endpoint' of the CYA test.

My past experiences with adding CYA product have been similar: it dissolves faster than what I had read and it's measurable within 24 hours.