Free Chlorine vs. Total Chlorine adjusting

[waterbear]

Well, I don't know for sure. But apparently some bacterial processes can take the ammonia and further process that to nitrates. Those will fertilize future algae growth, but not have any impact initially.

Once I've sold 100,000 kits . . . and used some of the profits to build my lab . . . I'll be able to answer some of those sorts of questions.

Meanwhile, I can't, and nobody else seems to want to do so.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

Ben,
I read the links you posted in another thread about the bacterial degredation of CYA and realized that they are the same families of bacteria that are used for anerobic denitrification (a good thing!) in a salt water aquarium (and also in soil). Under dark, anerobic conditions such as a covered pool with no circualtion, it is possible that some of the urea and ammonia are broken down all the way to NO2 and N2 which can gas off out of the water, laving less urea and ammonia compouds to form CC. In aquariums the breakdown cycle (simplified) is nitrate to nitrite to ammonia (and possibly other ammonia compounds), to NO2 and N2 which leave the aquarium water. Becuase of the chemical structure of CYA (and my limited chemistry knowledge) it seems that breakdown to urea is most likely. I don't know if it is more perisitant than ammonia but I suspect it is. This probably also affects the breakdown products as well. I don't really know at this point just how urea will be degraded by the bacteria but I belive it eventually follows the same pathway.

This is just my thoughts based on my knowlege of the process in aquariums and I intend to research it more as time permits but it is a possible explanation to watermom's question.

[Truckman]

OK, I am really losing my patience. Pool now is totally blue, looks clean but
is still very cloudy. The surprise is I have put in over 7 gallons of bleech 6%
in the last 36 hours, and am still only getting a 1.0 reading of FC and close to 3.0 of TC. There is no way I can get the chlorine to 15 as you suggested. PH is at 7.5 and TA is at 100. CYA is also at 100. Do I just
wait it out? Pump is still running 24/7.

[Watermom]

OK. There is good news and there is bad news. The good news is that with enough bleach, you will be able to clear up this pool. The bad news is that it is going to take a lot of bleach. In your earlier posts, you don't mention a cya reading (unless I missed it) and I think we were assuming you had none. With no cya, shocking to 15 will kill algae. But with a cya reading of 100, it is going to take shocking to more like 25 to kill it. See the link for more info about that.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

You should test your water 3x a day and each time shock it back up. It will take a lot of bleach, but it will work. I know it is hard to be patient, but hang in there and keep hammering it with bleach.

[Truckman]

Thanks, there is hope. Anyway to knock down the CYA?? The pool
looks pretty good except the cloudiness. Is the algae still there and I just
can't see it?

[PoolDoc]

Hi Truckman;

This is the first time I'd looked back at this thread, since you posted the "100 CYA" info. That concerns me.

It *could* mean that you had much higher CYA, and now have only 100, and the CYA residue is eating the chlorine. But it *could* mean that your problem is all algae.

What worries me is that it's possible that you are getting fake chlorine readings, with is possible with test strips, and very likely with DPD tablet testing. So, please get a cheapie OTO (turns yellow) kit, and test. OTO is not very accurate, but it's bomb-proof. If OTO shows no chlorine; you have no chlorine of any kind. But, OTO turns orange at levels that bleach out OTO tabs, and turns brown at levels that screw up test strips.

So, please check. With CYA = 100, your liner can probably stand 30 ppm without damage, but you might be higher than that.

But . . . if you check with OTO, and your chlorine really IS low, then there's nothing for it besides repeated large doses of bleach, till the chlorine goes up, and stays up overnight. This is true regardless of whether the problem is algae, or CYA residure.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[Truckman]

It is the reading with OTO. What is really confusing is the pool looks much, much better today and the Chlorine reading is lower today than it was
yesterday. It don't see any algae or residue, its just cloudy and seems to be getting better, but this is with the lower chlorine levels. I just added another
2 gallons of bleach about an hour ago so I'll see what it looks like in the
morning and do another test.

[Truckman]

So you're saying that the CYA residue is causing th cloudiness and not
algae.

[leejp]

I too opened to no CYA this year. While I am patiently waiting for my PS234S preorder to arrive Ive been using a low end pool store kit (for CC, pH and ALK) with guess strips (FC, CH and CYA).

It's a 26,000 gal IG... It's been a week with the pump running continuously and the pool has now consumed...

8lbs CYA
1QT Polyquat
35 x 96oz 6% 60.6PPM
19 x128oz 5.25% 38.4PPM
16 x 96oz 5.25% 24.2PPM
3 x 184oz 5.25% 8.7PPM

131.9PPM of Cl thus far!!!! Added in ~10ppm doses (in the early AM and then again in the late PM).

I am getting extremely high levels of TC(CC) but my FC is barely moving. Tonights readings...

CH=0, TC=10PPM, FC~0, pH=7.6, ALK~200, CYA~20

CYA is going up (good)
Test strip is beginning to show a wee bit of color onthe FC (end is near?)
PH looks good
scale hasn't been a problem so I'll do nothing with the ALK
also do nothing with CH

The water has been clear all along with very little slime, organic matter on the pool walls/bottom. I really do hope the end is near...

[chriss14]

I have the same problem as you I habven't use Bleach yet filter running 24/7 Need help as you do. Please advise