Too much Mule Team?

I have been using Ben's bleach method for the past 4 years following an incredibly expensive Baquacil summer ...it has been a huge time and money saver for us. Since I started, i have had very few problems and a bleach shock always cleared them up. This spring I opened our pool and the water was clear but ph was low (<6.8) - so I added Mule Team ...about 1 lb at a time. Now I've got about 1.5 boxes (6 lbs) in and ph is still <6.8 ...but the water has a "bitter" taste and I think I've over done it.

Have a 12,800 gallon fiberglass pool - I tested the water and got the following

FC = 5.5
CC = 0.5
ph <6.8
Cal 0
CYA 110 (I'm paying for my laziness last summer using pucks!)

My ph has always been very stable at about 7.2 and I've tried mule team as well as aerating (cascade waterfall running 24/7) but it isn't budging (unless my chemical is bad?) Seeing a couple of hazy "clouds" and had to clean off our cartridge filter - could I be starting to get an algae bloom because I let my CYA get too high for the lower chlorine levels to be effective?

Thanks for all the help - this forum has been very helpful and I'm glad to see it is still around.

Hi, and glad to see you're still around too!!

Answering last question first, I strongly suspect you're fighting an algae bloom--that CYA is awfully high, to the point where Cl of 8-10 should be your minimum. I strongly encourage you to drain about 1/2 your water and replace it, if it's feasible for you, because you're gonna have a hard time keeping it clear if you don't. After you refill it, shock it to 25 and you should see it clear up.

With the CYA that high, I'm not surprised that your pH is that low, either--remember, most pH test blocks only test as low as 6.8, so in reality it could have been much, much lower, and trichlor is a huge culprit with low pH. Keep adding Borax and testing, but you need to get that pH up into the 7.2-7.6 range as soon as possible. You don't mention a level for TA, but if it's high, then the pH is going to be more resistent to moving, which may explain why it's taking so much Borax to raise it.

No matter, the important point is that you raise the pH as soon as possible......I don't know what your fill water pH is, but if you're going to drain/refill for CYA, then refilling the pool will help raise the pH too, since tap pH should be higher than 6.8.

Janet

I just started Ben's BBB method after being pool-stored last season. My CYA is a little over 100; that was a major issue last year and I was told I had chlorine lock. Their cure was to add powdered shock 3 days in a row. Just learned that was a major no-no! We fought algae most of last season and since the pool's been opened this season (May 10), we've been fighting algae again. Then I came across this site--what a blessing!

My pH was registering 6.8, but I had to add 3 boxes of Borax (12 lbs). My pH today is finally 7.2. I've still got a CC of 1.2 so I'm adding bleach. The look of the pool is improving and this morning there was a cloudy center, but sparking edges. This method is going to pay off; I just know it!

Hi, BeenPoolStored, and welcome to the forum!! I'm glad you found us.

This method will most definitely pay off--I can send you pictures to prove it!! ;) Check these out....http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1180

With a CC of 1.2, get that chlorine up to 25--the more consistently you keep it there, the quicker the water will clear. Might want to consider draining and replacing about 1/2 your water, if that's feasible for you--it'll make your pool care much easier for this summer. You can still keep it good at CYA of 100, but it's gonna be much more expensive and time consuming than it will be at 50.

Janet

Jan's right.

BTW, BeenPoolStored's one of the BEST new handles I've ever seen! It's even better than BTDG's "BigTallDumbGuy".

Jan will tell you why I like the handle soooo much! Or Lisa, or Al, or Ben, or maybe Richard or Evan....:p

Thanks - I added some bleach last night and have the FC up to 16.5 ...TA is 20 and ph is still < 6.8 (using the OTO test kit was strange - the chlorine side was red and the ph side was yellow!). When adding the mule team - do I still need to go 1/4 box at a time directly into the skimmer? Can I spread a whole box around the surface of the pool? I will try to pump some of the water out to reduce CYA and stick a hose in to refill as I go. Thanks for the response!

Since the pH is so low, go ahead and do a half a box at a time. Once you start to see the pH move, back down to smaller additions, though. You don't have to wait too long between additions -- a couple of hours should be fine. Then, retest, redose. I would just put it in the skimmer breaking up any clumps, although sprinkling it around the pool is ok. It won't get the ph up any faster, though.

"Might want to consider draining and replacing about 1/2 your water, if that's feasible for you--it'll make your pool care much easier for this summer. You can still keep it good at CYA of 100, but it's gonna be much more expensive and time consuming than it will be at 50."

Aylad, We drained quite a bit of water tonight and are now in the process of refilling it. I added four 3 qt. jugs of bleach to the water when we first began refilling. I will test the water in the morning and begin again with the BBB process.

BTW, I LOVE the BBB method. It's amazing that the pool stores won't tell you how simple this is. If they would just stock bleach, Borax, and baking soda...

I'm sooo glad I found this site! Thank you for all your help!

BPS -- If you want to quote the another person's post, you can hit the "quote" button in the lower right corner instead of the "post reply" button when you want to make a post. Just an FYI for you. Welcome to our forum.

I drained about 1/2 of the pool last night. I tested my numbers this morning and here's what I came up with:

FC=5.4 (Finally, this registers!)
CC= 0.4
TC=5.8
pH=7.2
TA=100
CYA=90 (This IS about 1/2 of what I was dealing with)

Should I shock the pool since I replaced water or just bring the chlorine level up to between 8-10 ppm???

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know more about taking care of a pool. This is the 5th season and I can't believe that it's taken this for me to become proactive in pool care. I just purchased the Taylor K2006 kit. What a difference this has made in how I take care of the pool--only had this a few days. Can I order the replacement reagents?

How does the water look?

BPS,
For now I would just bring your Chlorine up to the 8-10 range. You can order reagent refills for your test kit from several places online. My favorite is http://www.spspools-spas.com. They have quick service, are very friendly, and seem to be competitively priced.

Janet

The water is crystal clear and blue. I've been fighting this since May 10th so it's wonderful to actually see the water with no green tint and the test results in check. Thank you so much for all your help!

OK - I have been adding Mule Team and chlorine as well as pumping out water ...today readings:

FC = 20
CC = 0
pH = 6.8 (still after 4 boxes / 16 lbs of Borax)
TA = 60 (this seems to be going up)
CYA = 60 (down from 120)

Still blueish clouds in the pool and I have to rinse off my cartridge filter every couple of hours - caked in some royal blue stuff. Any idea what that is?

Not sure what the blue stuff is, but keep working on that pH. After you add Borax, wait a couple hours, retest and redose. You want to get it above 7.0 ASAP.

CYA of 60 will be much easier to manage. NO more trichlor or dichlor in your pool, though. Keep up the good work and let us know how it is going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

Since the pH is so low, go ahead and do a half a box at a time. Once you start to see the pH move, back down to smaller additions, though. You don't have to wait too long between additions -- a couple of hours should be fine. Then, retest, redose. I would just put it in the skimmer breaking up any clumps, although sprinkling it around the pool is ok. It won't get the ph up any faster, though.

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Thanks - Another box of mule team and now we're moving ...pH is now 7.2 and FC =23 w CC=0 (CYA ~60). Still have honolulu blue clouds in pool and killing my cartridge every 20 minutes but at least starting to see the pH get back to normal. The other thing I noticed was during TA test. it went to yellow instead of red (60) - in the past it's always gone green to red, today went blue to yellow. What does that mean? Thanks for your help - I haven't found any explanation for the blue stuff yet.

Blue to yellow in the TA test is normal when the FC is high. This is described in the Taylor interferences description here. It's still a valid test -- the colors will just be different. As an alternative, you can add more thiosulfate (R-0007) when you know the chlorine is high -- around 2 drops for every 10 ppm FC, maybe a little more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chem geek

Blue to yellow in the TA test is normal when the FC is high. This is described in the Taylor interferences description here. It's still a valid test -- the colors will just be different. As an alternative, you can add more thiosulfate (R-0007) when you know the chlorine is high -- around 2 drops for every 10 ppm FC, maybe a little more.

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Nice! Yes, when you run the T/A test you are supposed to start with 2 drops of R-0007--the chlorine neutralizer. But it's nice to know that if your FC is between 10 and 20, you need two more drops. Thanks, Richard!