Starting off just like I left last season :(

We opened our 27' AG pool about a week ago and several problems plague me.
We had cloudy water last year almost all season. One day it would be clear and we thought we were doing okay only to have it cloud up again. That's last year, but now I am starting to wonder if we are going down the same road.

First my numbers:
PH - 7.2
CC - >20
FC - 10
Alk - 120
CYA - 80

The PH and Alk were low, very low prior to yesterday and I am afraid that I may have overshot the Alk by not being patient. In any case the pool water is a light green and cloudy. The pump has been running 24/7 for a week and little improvement has occurred. The water was coffee colored when we opened it and it had leaves and acorns at the bottom.

In our defense we were in the middle of building an addition on our home and we were a bit hasty covering it at the end of the season.

We have had the pool 10 years and I have changed the sand once.
I am starting to wonder if the filter is working right and adding to the problem. The filter has great flow, but after a few hours the flow dramatically slows. I backwash and then rinse and it's good for a while longer.

What I wind up doing when problems like this occur is to most likely start to chase my tail so I am asking for some troubleshooting steps or an angle of attack to find out if it's the chemistry, mechanical or a combination of the two.

Why would me flow reduce like this? I haven't opened the filter yet to see what kind of crap I will find.

Any help would be appreciated.

Your chlorine numbers can't be right. I seriously doubt that you have a CC reading greater than 20. Also, since you have a cya reading of 80, you should be shocking your pool up to 20 (FC that is). I'm not sure if you did shock to 20 and just mistakenly listed the 20 as your CC reading or if you shocked up to 10 or what. Retest and repost. What type of test kit are you using?

I also wonder what you are using for your source of bleach and also what your calcium hardness reading is. You shouldn't need to change your sand. My sand is on its 8th season, I think Al's is on his 13th or so season and Carl has had his sand for a good many years as well. I doubt the sand is your problem. If your pool is green, then you are probably just filtering out a lot of stuff that is clogging the filter. That means it is doing its job. This spring when I was opening my pool, the water wasn't green but had some debris, dirt, pollen in it and my filter pressure was rising frequently. We had to do a quick backwash fairly often and then it would be fine for a bit and then we would do it again. Somebody else may have something else to add about your filter.

Hang in there. We'll help you get it clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

Your chlorine numbers can't be right. I seriously doubt that you have a CC reading greater than 20. Also, since you have a cya reading of 80, you should be shocking your pool up to 20 (FC that is). I'm not sure if you did shock to 20 and just mistakenly listed the 20 as your CC reading or if you shocked up to 10 or what. Retest and repost. What type of test kit are you using?

I also wonder what you are using for your source of bleach and also what your calcium hardness reading is. You shouldn't need to change your sand. My sand is on its 8th season, I think Al's is on his 13th or so season and Carl has had his sand for a good many years as well. I doubt the sand is your problem. If your pool is green, then you are probably just filtering out a lot of stuff that is clogging the filter. That means it is doing its job. This spring when I was opening my pool, the water wasn't green but had some debris, dirt, pollen in it and my filter pressure was rising frequently. We had to do a quick backwash fairly often and then it would be fine for a bit and then we would do it again. Somebody else may have something else to add about your filter.

Hang in there. We'll help you get it clear.

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I respect your opinion and I also think I flipped the CC and FC, in fact on my paper I have
CC-10
FC-20

The kit is a Poolmaster Basic 4 Test Kit and I am also using test strips for the CYA and the off the 3.0 scale of the kit.

The Calcium reading from what I can rememeber is very low. I will re-check when I go home.

I really should bite the bullet and buy a Taylor kit I suppose, but it would have to be online since our pool stores kit choices stink.

In any case I am concerned with the filter. When I say the flow goes down, I am serious, really drops to about 1/3 of what it was. My guage, as with all guages I have had doesn't work anymore, so back pressure cannot be measured.

When I backwash I get a bit of brown water, but not the green smelly stuff I was always used to.

I feel like a complete novice at this point. I used to be the poolmaster and now... just it's humble servant. I need to learn to be patient, BUT the problem with that is I never know if I am waiting for a turnaround or just waiting for things to get worse. If I could get a glimpse of the future and if I am headed in the right direction I would be as patient as could be. LOL

Whoops forgot. I am using Liquid Bleach, Clorox, and a couple of pucks in the skimmer right now.

You do need to invest in a good test kit. Definitely worth the money. While you are fighting this, test at least 2 and 3 is better times per day and each time, add enough bleach to get back up to 20. Try to sustain the high reading and not let it yo-yo up and down.

I still don't think your numbers are right, though. I have never seen a CC reading of 10. Retest and repost.

You aren't filling from a well, are you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

You do need to invest in a good test kit. Definitely worth the money. While you are fighting this, test at least 2 and 3 is better times per day and each time, add enough bleach to get back up to 20. Try to sustain the high reading and not let it yo-yo up and down.

I still don't think your numbers are right, though. I have never seen a CC reading of 10. Retest and repost.

You aren't filling from a well, are you?

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The water is half city and half well, refilled last year after a liner replacement. But that was a while ago and city water has been used to top it off, why?

Sometimes well water has metals in it and thus can cause greenish tint to the water.

Well good thing you are paying attention because I'm not.

I checked my water again today.

FC >10
TC >10

I was looking at the 20 for Bromine on the test strip chart
PH is around 7.2-7.4
ALK is around 130

I don't have a Calcium test, just a hardness test in which I get low

I have just about got all the acorns out. It's tough when you cannot see them.
The Robo-Kleen has been running and bringing up pollen and crud.

I put a stocking on the skimmer basket which has had to be cleaned twice in 2 hours.

I put another 3/4 gallon of bleach in.

Thanks for sticking with me.

No problem. By the way, the hardness test is the calcium hardness. Low is fine for a vinyl pool despite what some pool stores will tell you.

I just ordered the Taylor 2006 kit today. Hopefully it will help me get a hold of things a little easier.

WaterMom: But at what point do you start considaring the filter/sand as the culprit ??/ I'm on day 11, and 23 gallons of bleach later. i have seen zero change in my pool water...still green and cloudy..so much to the point I have not vacuumed yet....brushing, yes...but I can't see past 18 inches from the top....
I'm wondering if the WalMart sand I bought (which was 1/2 the price of ANYone else locally) is actually my problem ?? (the old saying, "You Get What You pay For" is starting to ring true for me ???

When did you install your new sand? If it's new I do know that it's not as efficient as older dirtier sand at removing particles.

In my world I have added a total of 12.5 gallons of bleach over the last 2 days. The filter is on 24/7 and the robot is running too.

I still have cloudy green water, but I can now see faint image of the yellow robot at the bottom.

The filter isn't getting bogged down anymore and the skimmer stocking really helps with the little stuff.

On avg what kind of timeline can I expect to see improvement and more of the bottom?

It's a 17,000 gallon 48" pool.

There isn't a timeline. Every pool will be different. Just keep hammering it with bleach and maintain a consistent shock level without letting it fall and it will clear. I'm still wondering if you could be having any metal problems since you say you partially fill with well water. It wouldn't hurt to have a pool store check for metals in the water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stma

WaterMom: But at what point do you start considaring the filter/sand as the culprit ??/ I'm on day 11, and 23 gallons of bleach later. i have seen zero change in my pool water...still green and cloudy..so much to the point I have not vacuumed yet....brushing, yes...but I can't see past 18 inches from the top....
I'm wondering if the WalMart sand I bought (which was 1/2 the price of ANYone else locally) is actually my problem ?? (the old saying, "You Get What You pay For" is starting to ring true for me ???

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stma --- It is usually best not to jump into the middle of another thread because it gets complicated trying to help two people at once. I just replied to you in your other thread about posting a current set of water testing results. (FC, CC, alk, ph, cya). Repost that info on the other thread and also over there tell us if you bought pool sand or play sand. I doubt it is your sand. Let's continue on the other thread. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

There isn't a timeline. Every pool will be different. Just keep hammering it with bleach and maintain a consistent shock level without letting it fall and it will clear. I'm still wondering if you could be having any metal problems since you say you partially fill with well water. It wouldn't hurt to have a pool store check for metals in the water.

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It was from my neighbor's well and they had no issues with their pool with 100% of the water from their well and I know every pool is different, but I tend to think it's okay.

If I can I will take a sample to the pool store and have it checked.

Thanks again!

I am not sure you have a metas problem. What I see is that you need to really concentrate on getting the pool cleaned first. With a cya of 80 you must keep your chlorine at 20 as often as possible. I would take it as high as 30, this way it will not get below 20 before you get to check it again. You must vacuum or keep your pool cleaner going everyday. You also have to brush the sides to make sure that all of the algae is getting hit hard with bleach. I think that you were battling cloudy water last year because your chlorine was not kept high enough for your cya. If you don't kill all of the algae, it takes hold, and with the continued use of "almost enough" chlorine, the water does not turn green, but it does not get that crystal clear either. While I am not sure there is not anything wrong with your filter, it seems to me to be a chlorine problem at the moment. You can go through a lot of chlorine when you open to a dirty pool. The brown you are describing may be coming from dirt that worked it's way into your pool from your current construction. A quick way to find out if the sides of the pool are stained from organics or metals is to get some vitamin C tablets, crush them up and put them in a sock and rub on the vinyl liner where you can see if it changes color. If it does, then it is metals and I can tell you what to do. My opinion is to get the water cleaned up first, then worry about the stains. It took my pool over a week this year of adding so much bleach that I lost count for the water to look clean and see the bottom. When there is so much in it on opening, then there may be some nasty organics that need a lot of chlorine to kill it. You will know that all is dead when the chlorine holds overnight. Keep the filter running 24/7 for now. Hope this helps, and keep us posted:)

I added about 4 gallons of bleach when I got home. My PH went up, way up around 8. I guess I overshot the borax the other day. I added a little acid and I will wait.

The robot is still going and picking up slime and crud off the bottom. I backwashed and got the green color I was used to. The stocking is still doing it's job, but not filling anywhere near what it was.

I have a sump in the pool on the other side close to the bottom and shooting the water it pumps into the skimmer. I guess I just have to wait.

I have a question as to how you tell when your Chlorine level is at 20 or even 30. Can you tell with a better test kit?

Concerning your PH bounce: HOLD OFF ON THE ACIDE!!! High Chlorine levels will affect the PH reading indicator....(I just found that out today ,page 11 in the Taylor manual)...If and when the CL levels go down, test the PH again....it will be substantially lower !!....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stma

Concerning your PH bounce: HOLD OFF ON THE ACIDE!!! High Chlorine levels will affect the PH reading indicator....(I just found that out today ,page 11 in the Taylor manual)...If and when the CL levels go down, test the PH again....it will be substantially lower !!....

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Thanks for the tip.

It rained hard last night so I added another gallon of bleach before I went to bed. I added another 3 gallons of this morning. I am starting to wonder how much bleach it's going to take. I have purchased 21 1.4 gallon jugs of it in the last 3 days and before that about 10 gallon jugs from Big Lots. My recycling guy is going to have a fit.


The pool is still light green, but it is starting to show signs of improvement. It is a bit easier to see the robot or at least the color of the robot. LOL Also the water is cleaner, with less suspended crud thanks to the skimmer sock.

The robot brought up a small pile of acrorns last night and hasn't gotten stuck, which it does when it would hit acorns. It does bring up about 5 pounds of goop each time. I will have to give the poor thing a medal for going over and above it's job description.

If I can get there I will take a sample to the pool store today.

Should I keep the sump pump running and bringing water from the opposite side of the pool to the skimmer??

First up: Big Lots bleach (which I bought 20 gallons of the other day) is no more than 3%....if its the Sno-EEE brand, you'll ntice that the ingredient legend does not give a percentage number....So the $1.30 you're paying is really not much of a deal after all....Walmart/ Aldi etc can probably give you a better deal overall...

Any how, if things are getting better in the water, you're well on your way..I'd keep the PPM's up, continue brushing and backwqshing as needed..as for me, my green water issue is turning out to be a metals issue....(THANK GOD I finally found that out)...

Sorry, but I cannot answer the question concerning the sump pump....BUT KEEP BLEACHING !!! a little improvement today will constantly improve over the next few days....You're getting there !!!! (I only wish I was so lucky)...

So with metals in the water it will be and stay green?

With the amount of bleach I have in this pool I cannot imagine how the pool has not at least turned cloudy blue.

Yesterday I tried the dilution test with what little distilled water I had (I use it to clean records) and with just a 1/4 of the vial filled with a pool sample the reading was still off the charts with the max being 3, so my gut feeling is I have a ton of Chlorine in there.

My wife had picked up the Big Lots bleach on her way home from work. I bought 7 of the 3 packs of Clorox at Sams for about $6.86. Each jug in the pack is about 1.4 gallons. I am down to a jug and a half.

The robot is coming up very light now and the water is very clean as far as particles go.

I am beginning to suspect something else since the water is taking so very long to clear. Monday will make it 2 weeks with the filter running 24/7.

My wife is off today and she is taking a sample to the pool store. Do I have to ask for them to test for metals?

The way I've been reading things, IF your FC numbers are holding overnite, then the bleach has accomplished it's job at killing any algae blooms....The next step is looking at the metals issue...This is exactly the point I'm at today...Ive poured near 35 gallons of bleach in a 7500 gallon pool in the past 13 days and have seen NO CHANGE !!!....one of the gals suggested taking a Vitamin C tablet, place it in a sock, crush it with a hammer and rub the sock against the pool wall.....IF in fact the rubbing takes off a stain or lightens the vinyl (which you'll see pretty quickly) the problem is metals....

I'm headed out within the hour to buy a Metal out product which I'm praying will help with this pool water....

But try that Vit.C sock and see how you make out....it sounds as though we're both in the same boat...gotta love that well water !!!!

stma,
It is probably not a good idea to post your e-mail address on the forum. Lots of spam harvesters out there. Our forum has lots of "spiders" all the time. Better to just let him send you a private message instead or give him your e-mail address within your private message. Just my opinion. :)

By the way, if you decide you want to remove it from your post, you can hit the 'edit' button and go back in and do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stma

The way I've been reading things, IF your FC numbers are holding overnite, then the bleach has accomplished it's job at killing any algae blooms....The next step is looking at the metals issue...This is exactly the point I'm at today...Ive poured near 35 gallons of bleach in a 7500 gallon pool in the past 13 days and have seen NO CHANGE !!!....one of the gals suggested taking a Vitamin C tablet, place it in a sock, crush it with a hammer and rub the sock against the pool wall.....IF in fact the rubbing takes off a stain or lightens the vinyl (which you'll see pretty quickly) the problem is metals....

I'm headed out within the hour to buy a Metal out product which I'm praying will help with this pool water....

But try that Vit.C sock and see how you make out....it sounds as though we're both in the same boat...gotta love that well water !!!!

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But and there always is a but, there isn't any staining. :( I suppose I will just wait and see what the pool store test shows and go from there.

I guess I am just at a loss right now because I haven't seen things change like they have in the past. I keep expecting to come home or wake up and see a significant difference and know that I am on the right track, but I don't.

I will post my test results later today.

Taylor Kit arrived and this what I am dealing with right now:
PH - 7.2 added acid earlier
ALK - 80
Cal - 40
CYA - 110 :(
FC - 63ppm !!!! That was diluting a 10ml sample 1/3 pool 2/3 distilled water
42 drops

Could that be right????

CC -0

Still cloudy green although a bit lighter shade of green.

HELP!!!

With a CYA level that high, it's going to be almost impossible to get the chlorine level up where you need it to clear the pool. I strongly advise to drain about 1/2 the pool and refill, and go from there!

Janet

the only thing I can do is lend you my next steps I am taking in dealing with a 2 week old green pool...check your CL levels tonite, then check again tomorrow morning before the sun hits the pool...IF there is NO difference in the readings, it means the FC has stopped working against the algae...in other words, you have no algae left....you can also rub your hands across the sides of the pool wall...does it feel slimy, slippery et c?? If not, the algae is gone....

You DEFINITELY need to do the Vitamin C in the sock "thing." you Very Well may have a metals issue....In the event you do, FORGET the pool, enjoy the weekend and let the FC number drop to 1-2 PPm, THEN start your metal out treatments.....The afore-mentioned is exactly what I'm doing (except I'm buyin a case of beer as well to celebrate my findings).....!!

I NEVER had an issue like this in the past, and my cure-all was ALWAYS to keep shocking...Unfortunately, it didn't work this time.....The Vitamin C sock has shown me my issue is metal and not algae....i only wish I knew this prior to dumping 30 gallons of bleach into the water....!!!

PLEASE keep us posted as to your results and I will post to you as well to mine....together, we can get through this :> (then we can tackle the gas prices)!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aylad

With a CYA level that high, it's going to be almost impossible to get the chlorine level up where you need it to clear the pool. I strongly advise to drain about 1/2 the pool and refill, and go from there!

Janet

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That's what I am doing as I type. The pool store guy said, "who did this?" and I raised my hand. I guess he figured a competing store did it.
He said my CYA was off the charts. It was starting to clear a bit more, but at 63ppm I guess it had no choice.

I have drained below the skimmer already. Can I lay my solar cover on top of the exiting water and start filling from above? Will this keep the two from mixing much? I don't really want to take it too low without water on the walls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stma

the only thing I can do is lend you my next steps I am taking in dealing with a 2 week old green pool...check your CL levels tonite, then check again tomorrow morning before the sun hits the pool...IF there is NO difference in the readings, it means the FC has stopped working against the algae...in other words, you have no algae left....you can also rub your hands across the sides of the pool wall...does it feel slimy, slippery et c?? If not, the algae is gone....

You DEFINITELY need to do the Vitamin C in the sock "thing." you Very Well may have a metals issue....In the event you do, FORGET the pool, enjoy the weekend and let the FC number drop to 1-2 PPm, THEN start your metal out treatments.....The afore-mentioned is exactly what I'm doing (except I'm buyin a case of beer as well to celebrate my findings).....!!

I NEVER had an issue like this in the past, and my cure-all was ALWAYS to keep shocking...Unfortunately, it didn't work this time.....The Vitamin C sock has shown me my issue is metal and not algae....i only wish I knew this prior to dumping 30 gallons of bleach into the water....!!!

PLEASE keep us posted as to your results and I will post to you as well to mine....together, we can get through this :> (then we can tackle the gas prices)!!!!!

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The pool store test turned up no metals present. Just sky high CYA.

scootchu-

I suggest that you tackle one thing at a time and stay focused. Metals make a mess but they can clear up pretty quickly and can be controlled. Focus first on getting your CYA down (Like you are doing). Keep in mind that a half fill (using simple math) will take it from 110 to 55 and I (personally) think that is still pretty high. Doing a partial drain/refill a 2nd time would get it somewhere I like better, especially if you may also be dealing with metals. Keep in mind that metals react with High Chlorine and High PH so, in theory, if you need to shock and/or maintain at higher levels of FC due to your CYA number there may be a higher likely hood of a metal reaction.

If you really think you are dealing with metals, then I suggest the following:

When you do your refill and get your CYA down, Get your PH to about 7.0. Get your FC to about 1. Add about 1.5 to 1.75 qts of Pool Magnet or HTH Metal Control, let it circulate in the pool overnight. (don't add the product during sunlight).

Next, Vaccum if needed. Then begin to raise your FC to Shock level see BestGuess guide post. keep it at the appropriate level until it holds overnight, I'd even give it one extra night if you can be patient enough. Kill the 'pool livestock' and make sure its gone.

At the same time keep monitoring your PH and keep it low 7.0 - 7.2. **If and only if you believe that you are having a metal reaction due to your shock treatment, after you've completed 'shock therapy' let your chlorine level drop to somewhere around 1-2 and put some more Metal Control in, about the same as before, vaccum again and bring your FC back to the appropriate range.

I'm not a forum expert but have been dealing with metals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scootchu

Taylor Kit arrived and this what I am dealing with right now:
PH - 7.2 added acid earlier
ALK - 80
Cal - 40
CYA - 110 :(
FC - 63ppm !!!! That was diluting a 10ml sample 1/3 pool 2/3 distilled water
42 drops

Could that be right????

CC -0

Still cloudy green although a bit lighter shade of green.

HELP!!!

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No. Dilution is only effective for the OTO chlorine test. The Taylor test should be good to at least 50ppm if not 100ppm (100 drops vs 200 drops). So your FC number is spurious. Sorry.

Thanks for the tip. I had a 30ppm FC yesterday and my PH was 7.2
ALK was about 100 and my CYA was 70.

The pool water is bluish, but still a bit hazy. The bottom is clean of all organic materials. You can see the robot on the bottom with no problem, but the water is still not even close to crystal clear. I had DE somewhere, but cannot locate it. I will try to find it and/or buy some to put in the filter.

The pool store guy did try to tell me my sand was rounded and most likely needed to be changed and I could see how that would work in theory, but not in practice. I doubt 200 pounds of sand is going to tumble over and over like a rock tumbler and turn them into polished gems would it?

AND if things are a PITA enough the pump decided that the bushing between the impeller and the shaft was going to leak. I think there is a replacement bushing, but the shaft may be the cause and not worth trying to repair.

I added a small amount of clarifyer yesterday morning, but it didn't doing anything spectacular. I would really like to clear up the hazy water. The filter doesn't seem to be getting the tiny little particles out like I would like.

some folks on this forum have never changed out their sand...and i firmly agree with them...Years ago (and before finding this forum) I was changing out 100 lbs of sand twice a season !!! (based on the pool store's reccomendation)...needless to say, those days are long gone....

My water as well, is just shy of crystal....i wrapped one of the wife's panty hose around the skimmer insert....That has always helped me in the past....

Just an update:
FC is around 20
PH - 7.4
Alk - 80
CYA - 70

I changed out my filter and pump. It's a Hayward ST166 filter with a 1HP pump. I used a generic Zeobrite media in the filter and the pool is clearing a bit more each day, but still taking its sweet time.

My question is how long do I keep the shock level up, especially if the water is no longer green and I can see the botton print on the liner???

If it were totally clear I would have my answer, but it's not.

What is your CC number?

It is finally under control.

The cloudiness would not clear and thinking back to last year and the amount of clarifier I had used I was betting that I used too much and then a little more this season didn't help.

The chlorine has been holding at 15ppm and the PH was 7.4 so I knew my water was in a lot better shape than before.

I added some Power Floc and in 4 hours watched in astonishment as a brown cloud appeared beneath the haze in the center of the pool. It steadily became bigger and others popped up. This morning I saw a much clearer pool and vaccumed to waste the piles at the bottom.

I am topping off the water lost and running the robot and filter. I am so relieved that the water is clear. Now I can fine tune and relax a bit.

Thanks for all of your help. I appreciate it !

I'm so happy that your water is clear!!! I know how frustrating it is to have to keep trying things, especially when you have to wait a while in between "things";) I know, I keep trying different levels in my pool to one day find out how to keep metals out the easy way.:D

Thanks again. I have noticed that I am still getting piles deposited overnight in the center of the pool. What I want make sure of is whether it's algae or just the coagulated reminants from the floc treatment.

I have vacuumed to waste twice and been running the robot a lot. It's a brownish color just like what accumulated when I added the flocculant.

My water temp is a cool 74.
My PH was 7.4
FC was 12ppm
ALK was 90

Should I be concerned about algae or does it take this long for the particles to slowly stop precipitating?? Otherwise the water is clear.

As long as your chlorine in good - the right levels with your cya, and you have no combined chlorine, then it is just dirt and dead algae - it could take a wihile to all filter out.

No combined chlorine. I checked today. My CYA is 50
I will floc again later this week and vacuum to waste.

I wouldn't floc again. Just keep the filter running. As long as your chemical numbers are good, and your water is clear, what would the purpose of using floc again? The less you put in your pool the better:D