new pool owner trying to balance swg pool

I went to the pool store today and had my water tested. A few days ago I had my pool drained, filled, and a swg added. The salt level on the aquarite machine reads 4000 which seems high but I don't know how accurate the machine is, nor how much it matters that it's a little high.

I bought 50 lb calcuum, 3lb (smallest they had) of balance pak 200 to put in 1 lb to adjust ph, and 25 lb balance pak 100 to raise alkalinity.

The pool store said that normally all I'd need to add is salt and mineral springs (which I don't think is needed) after the initial balancing.

I am wondering did I get ripped off? I did not know whether buying all those chemicals was helpful or needed, but I did it anyway. I did check the prices of what I bought, and they were in line with discount pool suppliers online.

My readings were: free chlorine 2.4 (good)
adj. total alkalinity 18 (says ideal is 80-125)
minerals 3500 (says ideal is 2700-3400)
saturation idx -2.1

If it turns out I did get ripped off badly, I am going to return the products to the store. If I just got ripped off a little I will probably just keep the products and take this as a lesson learned. So any input would be appreciated.

Well, not exactly sure what "minerals" means, seems almost like the salt range to me. The mineral springs stuff is more snake oil.

Balance pak 100 = expensive baking soda
Balance pak 200 = soda ash


Looks like you need some of the balance pak 100 because your Alk is low. However, you can do the exact same thing with baking soda, bought in bulk for cheaper. Sams/Costco/etc have 12# bags of baking soda for this very purpose.

I wouldn't use the Balance Pak 200 for your pH, as soda ash has a nasty habit of making your Alk rise. Most folks here use Borax to adjust pH upwards. It's cheap, and availible at your grocery store in the washing soap aisle. Hard to tell how much you need, because your pH wasn't posted.

You are missing results for: pH, Ca, CYA, pool size and pool type (vinyl liner? gunite/marcite?) Get those results and we can help further.

Michael

I can't see what the size of your pool is, nor whether it's vinyl-lined or concrete/tile/gunite.

If it's vinyl, take the calcium back--you absolutely do not need it.

MWSmith2 is right on every score. "Balance Pak XXX" is Biogard's way of charging you 3x as much as the stuff should cost.

I cannot imagine anyone needing 25# of soda ash...At most I use 1 four lb box of Borax when my pH is really low--on one occasion I had to use 2...

IF you need to raise pH and Alk, then Soda Ash does both. But I think 25# is excessive.

It makes me very angry when decent people are taken advantage of by pool stores. There's SO much they can sell us legitimately--why ruin it?

BTW, they will argue with you vehemently when you take the stuff back...they'll tell you that you must have calcium in a vinyl pool...uh-uh.

They also have you drop in tons of stuff at once. I much prefer to adjust one thing, and adjust it slowly, creeping up on my target, not overshooting it. The only thing I'll dump in en masse is bleach, because there's no way one jug of bleach is going to put my numbers too high...

Good pool stores are a joy. Also rare... But sometimes they have something that appeals to the little kid in me. Sometimes it's junk, sometimes it's a gem...The PoolBuster was a real risk: $200 for something that might be a total waste of $$$---turned out to be SURPRISINGLY useful and effective. I only use the Dolphin and the PoolBuster--I never even pull out the vacuum anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlD

I cannot imagine anyone needing 25# of soda ash

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You're getting the 100 and 200 confused

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cathy404

3lb (smallest they had) of balance pak 200 to put in 1 lb to adjust ph, and 25 lb balance pak 100 to raise alkalinity.

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So they wanted her to put in 1# of 200 (soda ash) and 25# of 100 (baking soda). Easy to get confuzzled with all those darn numbers flying about! :cool:

Michael

38k gallons. It says in the goldline aquarite book that the levels need to be 200-400 calcium, 80-120ppm alkalinity and 7.2-7.6 ph. Does it affect the salt cell longevity if they are not in those ranges? It is vinyl.

I also have a Goldline swg and I try to keep my numbers such that the saturation index is close to zero. This is where the numbers come from in the goldline book. If you let the SI get too high, scaling occurs on the cell. If the SI gets too low then is starts to dissolve the plates in the SWG and shortens the life of the cell. I have had mine about 9 months now and by keeping the SI close to 0, I have managed to keep the cell pretty clean.

Here is a good online calculator for SI: http://www.advancedh2o.com/technical.../langlier.html

or just use the table in the Goldline manual. Good luck!

thanks mark. that was really helpful. It does say that in the book so I guess I will follow that. I wondered do you use the mineral springs program? Or do you find it a waste and unneeded? Also what do you do as far as maintenance goes? Test once a week? Add chemicals and if so how often? how many times a year? I live in GA and have a lot of leaves which may not matter but fyi.

No, I don't use the mineral springs program. I think they simply add CYA and some buffers to the salt and charge you a lot of money for it. You can do it all separately which is cheaper and probably better since you have more control over amounts.

I test the PH & CL once a week, yes some do it every day but I don't. I add about 1 pint of muriatic acid per week to keep PH within +- .1 of optimum SI. I check alkalinity every other week or when I feel like it but I have not had to do anything for that yet. As for salt, I add that when the controller reading drops below 2800, only one bag so far this year. Other than vacuuming and brushing once in a while, not much else. I think I have been lucky and not had to do much in terms of maintenance.

My salt meter reads 4000. I thought I'd just leave it and not bother trying to change it. Is there any reason it matters much that it's a little high?

Hi Cathy,

I have the mineral springs system which came with the new pool. 22 000 IG . The builder left me with 600 pounds Beginners. I balanced the pool and added 300 pounds and my display went straight to 4000 which should be fare to much and the unit should not produce sanitizer. I had my mineral level checked and it was around 1600 so I added all minerals in with brought me up to 3200 according to the test. I called biogard and they stepped me trough a test program with the result that everything is looking good. The service tech told me that a new unit could show for the first weeks some unrealistic #’s and it should be OK in 1 or 2 weeks. We will se so fare no change. I don’t trust the display anyway but with a new unit I should come at least close and specially as the manual says if the minerals go over 3800 the unit will shut down. So I ask myself is the unit operational at all. I tested my Chlorine and from the figures it looks like the unit works but it just don’t feel right. I know that I will not spend next year 30 $ a bag for the Beginnings and the Renewal also look like a balancing pack nothing else. I started my research on what is really in this stuff so I’m sure with this forums help I will soon know what I need to get and that for the 3rd of the price Biogard ask for the same things.

Guido

Cathy,

The unit will shut down if the salt level is too high so if the diagnostic menu shows it generating chlorine when you first turn the pump on, then I would say it is ok. If the display shows a high salt warning, then the unit has shut itself down and you will have to replace some of the water to get the salt level down. Also, higher salt levels will generate more chlorine.

IMHO, Mineral springs by Bioguard and SaltWater Magic by NaturalChemisty(enzymes and other stuff) are unnecessary and expensive. They are a mix of plain salt and other (unknown for the most part) additives that supposidly 'balance' your water. For a SWG properly to operate you need to balance your water ( using a drop based test kit!) with baking soda for alkalinity, calcium chloride (DowFlake is MUCH cheaper than the pool store stuff and is what Dow recommends for pool/spa use on their website--check your local hardware store) IF you need calcium for a plaster pool, and borax or muriatic acid to ajust pH. Since SWG's cause a pH drift upwared in normal operation you will probably just need the acid. You also need to put stablilzer (CYA) in for an outdoor pool. Most SWG maufacturers recommend between 60-80 ppm but even that amount has come under question in this forum and I believe that some members are operating sucessfully at lower levels.

As far as salt goes, PLAIN solar or water softener salt or pool salt is fine. Just make sure it has no additives for iron or for keeping the water softener clean and it is at least 99.5% pure salt (and no anti-caking additives either). I buy pool salt at the grocery store becuase they are cheaper than other places I have looked! (both the Winn Dixie and Publix chains carry it here in N. FL--Morton Pool Salt at about $5.00/40 lb. bag). Keep a check on your salt level. Slighly higher is better for extending cell life than running on the low side from what I have been able to determine. I try to run mine at about 3200-3400 ppm. Check with your maufacturer. Some units will cut off at high salt levels, others will operate with salt levels up to 6000 ppm.

Also, in the rare event that you have to shock your pool it is better to do it with bleach than with the superchlorinate setting. The cell's life is measured in hours of use and running it for 24 hours to shock will shorten it's life! Many of the people on the forum have reported that they have had no need to shock (no significant Combined Chlorine) since their SWG's have become operational...myself included!

Goldline Controls manufactures the Mineral Springs unit for Bioguard. I own a Goldline Aqualogic PS-8 and one of the settings on mine is to read ether salt or minerals. I called Goldline tech support to ask about it when I was setting up my system and they told me that was for people using Mineral Springs so they would see a 'mineral' reading instead of a "salt' reading but it only changes the words on the display! Interesting, no?:rolleyes:

I’m running the Mineral Springs now since view weeks without adding any renewal into the pool and my water is in a very good shape. I test daily and beside the PH rising and a bit high TA everything is OK. I’m in the process to find the right output setting on the unit to get my CL into good levels and I’m getting better.
A friend of mine never added renewal in he just adds salt in the spring and if the level goes down he add some more. I will see how my season goes but I don’t think I have to add anything if my figures are correct.

You will most likely need to be adding muriatic acid on a regular basis. SWGs cause the pH to creep upward. If you bring your pH down to about 7.2-7.4 you will possibly find that your TA falls into line as well.