We're thinking of going to a saltwater chlorinating system (Heliocol) and need to know the pros and cons of these systems. All I see online is testimony from folks who like the system. There has to be a downside. What is the whole truth?
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We're thinking of going to a saltwater chlorinating system (Heliocol) and need to know the pros and cons of these systems. All I see online is testimony from folks who like the system. There has to be a downside. What is the whole truth?
There is always a downside to EVERY system. There CAN be corrosion issues, but there doesn't HAVE to be or it can be virtually minimized to the point of null with proper attention to the risks and maintenance. There CAN be extra work initially in setting it up, dealing with salt, possibly dealing with the system malfunctioning (as with any equipment)
It is simply a way to deliver chlorine to your pool, usually without much work on your part. There are other chlorine delivery systems out there with their own set of issues and of course the "alternative" sanitzers with a lot of questions about effectiveness and true sanitation capabilities.
I have a swg and am happy with the convenience and continuity it provides me. I keep jugs of bleach on hand just in case there is a problem.
I've had a SWCG for a little over a year now and am happy with it. I travel a lot and don't have to worry about chlorine not being added if I am gone for a week or so. The initial start up cost was about 1000.00 for the system and the salt. In the beginning I had a constant fear the system would fail and I'd come home to a green mess but that has never happened. I like being able to control when the water is being chlorinated by when I run my pump.
YMMV but I'm a happy convert ;)
Hi - I've had a SWG for about a year now and really love the feel of the water. As for pros and cons:
First, cons:
- dealing with acid is a pain! As you probably know, a side-effect of using SWG is a steadily rising pH which means you will be regularly adding acid to keep your pH under control. There appear to be some ways to control the pH rise (borates) but I haven't found one that works for me. These days, I add 32 oz of acid every 5 days or so (11k gallon IG). My pH is probably still being affected by my gunite and pebble curing, so might not be as bad a problem for you as it sounds like yours is an already existing pool.
- corrosion/pitting - much of the stories out there of SWG-caused corrosion appears anecdotal and can be explained by other water quality issues, and I haven't noticed any corrosion myself, but it still makes you wonder. I have started to see erosion-type effects under my spa spillway and under my weeping wall, but how do you prove that this isn't just caused by plain old water erosion? I guess the "con" here is that you just don't know, and it will likely continue to nag you each time you see some wearing out of your coping, grout, or mortar.
- the very slight salty taste might take some getting used to.
- additional equipment start-up costs
And, the pros:
- the water feels great on the eyes and skin!
- no need to shock - I've never had any combined chlorine, and I test my water every 2-3 days.
- no need to stock-up on and handle chlorine, although I've never owned a chlorine (non-SWG) pool so I don't know if this is just as much of a pain as storing and handling acid is (which I think is a big pain).
Hope this helps!
Some of the oft touted benefits of an SWG don't actually have anything to do with the SWG but accrue instead from having salty water. Those include the "feel" of the water, and the lack of eye sting. If that's all you want from an SWG you can just put salt in the water.
There's a long thread here with several posts about stone corrosion caused by salt water. It seems to be a regional issue (if it's an issue at all) and may be related to rainfall. One theory is that frequent rainfall in places like Florida and the Gulf south keep the stonework rinsed off. If that theory's right and you live in an arid or semi-arid area, you can get the same result by regularly rinsing off the stonework.
SWGs will tend to drive your pH up. In some pools, owners see no net pH rise at all as the upward pressure caused by the SWG is offset by some other variable.
SWGs have a high initial cost and are a more expensive chlorine source than bleach or tri-chlor. This thread has a good cost analysis. I figure that between initial cost, costs for additional acid, electricity costs for running the SWG, and the cost of periodic cell replacement, an SWG would cost me about $10/month more than chlorinating with bleach.
You may or may not have to shock an SWG-equipped pool. You may if you have a very heavy bather load or if a bunch of organics (e.g. leaves or pollen) get into your water and overwhelm the chlorine your SWG produced. You may if you lose power for a day or two and thus don't produce any chlorine. Ditto if your SWG has a failure. In other words, you may have to shock an SWG-equipped pool for the same reasons you have to shock a bleach chlorinated pool. There is probably less chance of having to shock with an SWG but as many poolforum devotees will attest, a pool cared for in the way advocated here will rarely if ever need shocking either (I haven't ever shocked thist pool in the almost two years I've had it).
The benefit of an SWG is that you have an extremely convenient method of getting chlorine into your pool.
This is my second summer with an SWG. I used granular CL the three years before that. I won't switch back. When I physically added CL to the pool, the CL level would bounce from low to high readings, then reduce over time. That bounce also made my pH and Alk bounce, so that I felt I was always trying to balance something. When the CL delivery is smooth and constant, the other readings stay much more in line. I made the switch for under $800. I rarely have to add much acid, usually less than 6 oz. I don't consider handling the acid to be that much hassle. A jug weighs about 6-8lb and lasts me 3-5 weeks. Hauling granular CL buckets that weigh 50lb or more was a MAJOR hassle. The last one I bought (2 years ago) was 125lb! I still have 40-50lb left, if anyone wants it! :D
Hal
PS- Welcome to the Forum!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtV
Has anyone added salt to reduce "eye sting". My duaghter went swimming in a SWG pool and she commented that it was a lot easier on her eyes. That was a shot to the pride since I keep my water in darn good balance and the chlorine level is not excessive! Food for thought.
Yes, I and many others have salt water without an SWG. You'll see a noticeable reduction in eye sting at about 1200-1500 ppm salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spensar
I have found that closer to 2000 ppm is the point at which I notice a difference. Let me tell you, what a difference it is. Just add pure water softener salt, let it disolve and walla!
Dave
The closer you get to the salinity of tears, about 9000 ppm I think, the less eye sting you'll get. So 2000 ppm will cause less eye sting than 1500 ppm, and 4000 will cause less than 2000, etc., etc. It's a diminishing returns thing at some point though, so start low and work your way up until it's where it feels good to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidD
How do you add it, pre-dissolve in water or just broadbcast in the deep end?Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidD
Just dump it in near the main drains; it'll dissolve and get distributed through the return(s) in a matter of minutes.
Any rouigh rule of thumb on how much pure water softener salt is required to raise the salt content a certain ppm for a given quantity of water. eg. x pounds to get 50 ppm for 10,000 gallons.
You can use the BleachCalc - follow this thread for information on where to get it: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=4735. It performs a wide variety of chemistry calculations, including those for salt.
For example, according to BleachCalc, for a 10000 gallon pool, adding a 40 lb bag of salt will raise the salt level by 479.9 ppm. Keep in mind that your pool water probably already does contain a couple to a few hundred ppm of salt as well.
For example, according to BleachCalc, for a 10000 gallon pool, adding a 40 lb bag of salt will raise the salt level by 479.9 ppm. Keep in mind that your pool water probably already does contain a couple to a few hundred ppm of salt as well.[/QUOTE]
When I converted to SWG, the product manual suggested about 800# of salt for a 30K gal pool (mine is about 27K), yet I only needed 550# to get to 3200ppm. That would suggest the water had maybe 500-1000ppm salt just through sweat and atmosphere(?). If the calculations are incorrect, please forgive me-I majored in English, not math.:o My point is, buy some salt test strips and get a feel for how many ppm a bag adds to your pool, because it will always be dropping. I hope this helps someone.:)
Hal
I have been extremely pleased with my QuikChlor SWCG. One thing that is important to remember, having a SWCG can make you a little complacent about checking chlorine levels. You still need to check your chlorine at least weekly (I check my chlorine & ph Wed/Sat) as your SWCG will need to be adjusted occasionally. As an example, in May a setting of 40% worked fine; June it had to be kicked up to 60%, and July to 72%. We are having an extremely hot and very sunny summer this year. Last night I just readjusted to 65% as the monsoon season brings alot of cloudiness, and less chlorine is lost. My pump run time is 8hrs, FWIW.
This is my third season with an Autopilot SWC (60 series). I'm extremely happy with it.
I used to deal with pH rise, but no longer. Read some of the posts in the China Shop about Borax, pH rise, SWC, etc. I run Alk on the low side (70-80), pH at 7.5-7.8, and at least 50 ppm Borates. I've added less than a gallon of acid to my pool since May. That's even with a fountain running all July to help keep temps down. (Note I have a vinyl pool with no heater).
As for convenience, I just returned from a 10 day vacation to a pristine pool. Nobody had to check on it, baby sit it, etc. Perfect levels, perfect clarity. Ran the Dolphin for a cycle and the pool was in perfect shape.
The day after I got back we had some serious rainfall (finally!). I had to drop the level twice to avoid overflowing, and never had to touch my chemistry (Except adding some salt to combat the dilution effect). The SWC kept up nicely and no algae showed its ugly head. Gotta love that!
I just shifted to SWG from Chlorox adds (was adding 1.5ppm per day or a 1.4gal jug every 2 days)(frankly, the carrying of Chlorox jugs from the supermarket was becoming a PIA for my wife!!!)(the local pool store was asking $17.00 for a 5gal chlorine bottle-12%, so Chlorox was the cheapest way to go)-bought an Autopilot Digital SC-60 online from an Internet Pool store and a 50% savings from the Autopilot website retail cost and the local dealer. Love the results. The SC-60 is one size larger than needed (my pool is 30,000 gal)-but happy with larger cell and I only run my pump 10hr/day.. Bottom line, I bought the SWG for convenience not money savings, as the initial cost may not save you money over the life of the system
The water is much clearer (think it is due to a more consistent chlorine level)(sparkles brightly in the full sun, and has a tint of "aquamarine" color in the afternoon sun from the salt add, no eye stinging, CC is always under 0.10ppm level, so, shocking no longer, and best of all, it has allowed me to remove my Nature2 system which saves me an additional $100.00 per season for the cartridge.).(The Nature 2 system was causing some pool wall discoloration).
No one can tell I have salt in the pool!!! Of course, I can-and periodically I taste a slight salt taste for the first 5 min of pool entry-then the taste goes more to a sweet taste. I do have to add approx 1 qt of acid every 3-4 days if there is a lot pool water surface agitation, but if I cause the pool discharge to go to the main drain (called solar recirc by the pool builder), I have found the water agitation is none and my pH is relatively constant (can go almost 1 week without an acid add. My pool is 2 years old-used TRI the first year and the BBB (chlorox) the second year. I would never shift back
Of note-Bleachcalc and the SWG manual said I needed 700lb of salt added-but I only had to add 300lb to get to the 3000ppm level. So measure salt content before adding. Based on forum comments, the initial pool salt level was approx 1500ppm and was from chlorox adds as well as the first year TRI, DI, and CaHypo adds-all of which end up as salts once the chlorine is used up. In the month of usage, I have not had to add any additional salt, and the autopilot has kept up with the chlorine demand easily. Now that is has gotten cooler in PA (80F days and 60F nights) and my using a solar cover at night-my typical setting is 40% and the lowest of 3 power level settinsg
As for the Autopilot-very happy with the purchase-has all the bells and whistles (even tells you when and how much salt to add). The install was done by me and very easy since they give you a cell manifold that gets glued into your PVC discharge line. The hardest part was the wiring and conduit install-due to the close quarter confines of my pool timer vs where I hung the SWG control box-still only a 1 hr job for wiring and a 2hr job for cutting PVC and gluing (most of the 2 hr was waiting for the glue cure).