Excavating and receiving my 12'x24' this weekend. I'm Ready!... I hope

Last year I spent lots of time lurking and posting a few times here on PoolForum.
Last week I finally ordered my 12'x24'x54" Diamond Star pool from http://www.sunenterprises.com
This week I've started manually digging my ~8" grade to get it down to <1/4" level.
This Saturday we've lined up 1 day rental of a mini-excavator (M 310) from Hertz for about $500 including tax and round-trip delivery. That ought to make digging much easier and much more fun! I could do it by hand but I estimate it would take me 5 hours of hard digging. This is supposed to be a fun project :p (and I'm still saving money going DIY).

This Saturday the Pool will be delivered to our curb... same day as my excavator rental. I've ordered sunshine to go with my all-day marathon too.:).


Here's my plan (please chime in with any thoughts!):
1. Friday: Finish planting stakes, measuring out level, and digging sample sections down to level so I know how deep to go with the excavator across entire area. Measure twice, dig once (with a big power shovel :D !)
2. Friday: Manually dig around sprinkler system supply lines or at least mark them so I don't whack them with the big bucket.
3. Friday evening: Read Pool installation manual and check pool forum for construction posts. Adjust rest of my plan accordingly (last-minute... I know!)
I must find the construction walkthrough hrdennis (or Mat4x4) posted some time ago that I remember reading. It was great (and probably in the sticky construction FAQ come to think of it :-).
4. Saturday (10AM?-dark?): Excavate!
5. Saturday 11AM-3PM: Receive 600+ lbs of pool (on 2 skids) from delivery truck right into my F350 pickup (2 people + emergency neighbor plan on hand to do this). Then use my truck as a wheelbarrel to transport the pool to my back yard. Excavator can probably help unload off my pickup :cool: .
6. Saturday evening/Sunday morning: Install bottom bracing and
7. Sunday if possible <TBD> Order (&pick up?) 2 tons (per sunenterprises rep estimated need) of sand/screenings, then spread it perfectly level.
Note I bought HappyBottom pool bottom and coving because this is my first major pool install and I think these materials will save me time (which is less available than money for now). I'm not planning to install any other barrier as area has been dug down roots of a well behaved grass lawn.)
8. Sunday (if possible) Level level level the sand, water it to help settle, then lay pool bottom and cove molding, and stretch liner out to start filling.
9. Start filling from garden hose and dribble in ~1gal chlorine bleach (12%?) with the water.
Investigate if getting a water truck to fill after bottom and cove molding stretched in nicely might be cheaper + faster.
10. Use starter kit Get a real test kit and start balancing out BBB from the beginnig.


QUESTIONS:
Q1: I need to find who has and can deliver screenings in North Bothell, WA (Just NW of Seattle)?

Q2: Can I use other grade of sand than screenings?
I ran acrost the recommendation to use screenings for pool foundation a while ago... need to go swimming around for that thread again. I also haven't figured out the best way of getting the sand into the back yard and into the pool frame... Perhaps best to get 1 ton at a time with my F350 on a skid pad then drive it into my back yard. (I have extra sod to cover my tracks if needed :rolleyes: .)

Q3: Do I need to dig any deeper than level from lowest point to compensate for sand added for pool bottom foundation?
I'm digging to level from lowest corner of my pool site. I've dug that corner down ~2" to remove sod, but I'm not planning to go any deeper than that.

Q4: Do I need to use blocks under the pool frame columns?
I'll read the installation manual (and I think I recall reading a post that mentioned first-time installers should consider using deck blocks under corner columns). However for now I'm thinking I won't need them unless someone tells me it is a good idea or instructions require it. The soil is pretty solid hard-pan.

Q5: Emergency drainage planning?
I've never read anything about emergency drainage. My rec-room is about 2' lower and 20' away from the pool. I figure I'm toast (soggy toast) if the pool gives catastrophically so I'd better invest in doing construction right the first time. I can't really excavate a drain field between the two because of a huge blossoming cherry tree followed by a concrete patio.

Sorry for so many questions. It's crunch time for me.


Construction Conditions:
+ Compact hard-pan soil with occasional round rocks 2"-4" diameter.
+ Winter is mild freezing/frost "marine climate" in Puget Sound area (low 20 degree F with perhaps 1 week of snow is all we typically get each year)
+ Yard site is level to ~8". I'm fixing that to <.25" with lasers, levels, and power tools (per above).
+ Praying for sunny weather this weekend. Light showers might be involved so I've been tarping and digging when not at work this week. Overall not bad (ground >.25" is dry).

I'll post pics once I figure out how (or URL to pic site if not) sometime soon.

I'm READY! I'm also a bit nervous about what I'm overlooking for planning. Any thoughts and feedback replies are welcome. Here I go!

Oh yeah... I'll be checking this thread Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday noon, Sunday morning, and any time if I get stuck :) . Post often!

Hi, my project for the weekend is a 16 x 32, in the ground with a 2' deep end. I will, however, be of as much help here as I can.

It sounds like you have a very solid plan. Your ground must be level, no extra digging for sand. The straps need to go across the pool at grade level.

Once the wall is up, then you install cove, spread sand and lay happy bottom.

Blocks should only be needed at the backs of the side braces.

Have a great weekend, Dennis

Thanks Dennis. I guess I need to find out what kind of blocks to get. I'm printing out the installation guide this morning for good "break-time reading" :) .

FYI: Confirmed excavator will be John Deere D35 with 18" or 24" bucket. There is option to get bigger "cleanup bucket" ~35" but I want to make sure I can dig. The rental rep said I can attach angle iron (or other long flat bar) to the excavator's thumb then drag it to level out the site once material is removed. I'll need to get the angle iron though. (I'll probably just do that Saturday ~noon as a break-time project once I get a chance to see how it will work.)

Good luck. I thought about installing my 15 x 24 a few years ago, and as a contractor i am sure i could have got it done. But after closely watching the crew that installed mine, i know for sure that i could not have done it as quick or trouble free. They were done in 5 hours and the install was dead on perfect. They worked like i machine, one guy clearing the site with a bobcat, one assembling pool frame pieces, one guy working on the filter and then onto other tasks. Our install was $900, i just question how much your really saving doing it your self, if you didn't have to rent a machine for $500 i could definitely see it, but then again we all like to play with large earthmoving equipment every now and then:D

Bk, What a thing to say to someone about to tackle such a big project on his own. :)

I do have a couple of opinions on that line of thought. I do in a few hours what a first timer would take from three days to three weeks to do. I walk into many disasters that took weeks of hard work only for me to say I will have to take it all down and redo correctly. It is just not for everyone.

If an experienced installer can be found at a reasonable price then that would sure be a good option. That is hard to find in all areas.

A do it yourself project is in many situations the way to go. And I figure that if this forum is on standby it is no longer a do it yourself job, it’s like lets all do it. We do make a difference.

I spent several days fixing my wife’s sewing machine, many years ago. When she got it back from the shop the repair man advised her to never let her husband touch the machine again. If I had had a forum to go to I could have done it right, I’m sure I could have. :)

I remember my first garage door opener, the install price was sixty dollars. Three days later I had installed it myself, saved the sixty and had that great pride that I did it myself. :)

My backup truck is an F250 with nearly three hundred thousand miles on it. It has never been in a shop. So it takes me half a day to change a water pump when a shop could do it in forty five minutes, no one touches my truck.

I’m just saying, I have total compassion and understanding for those that hire and those that don’t.

Zephans, the blocks needed for under the braces are just standard patio pavers. They can be 12 x 12 or 8 x 16 at about 1 ½’ to 2’ thick.

Have a good weekend, don’t forget the pics. Dennis

I totally agree with you Dennis... everyone has a different level of handyness, I installed my garage door opener too, its so darn easy and fun, and saved a few bucks. Decks, fences, pretty much anything with wood is good too. But I take my hats off to someone who wants to install a pool themselves for the first time, thats courage! Things can go great, but things can go horribly wrong, and the best laid plans can take 3,4 even 10 times longer than expected, especially when you find out you need this tool or that material, trips to the hardware store can eat into your day BIG TIME.

zephans I wish you luck and hope everything runs smoothly... and that you don't run into any thing "difficult" while you are digging.

I didnt see where you alotted time to install your equipment/electrical/gas/plumbing? or is it a lot easier on an AGP?

Our best advice on pool building is ALWAYS reasearch and NEVER rush.

What it boils down to is each and everyone's abilities, but more so, each and everyone's proper judgement of their abilities!!!
My in laws keep thinking there isn't ANYTHING I can't do - a nice thing for someone to think of you, however, the way I see it is they just haven't asked me to do something I'm unable to do - a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE!
Deciding whether or not to build my own pool was a daunting task at first, once I looked it all over, the hardest part seemed to be getting the liner in right - to this day, I feel that it still is the hardest part of the job - getting something level isn't hard given the right tools, setting up the wall isn't hard - it's somewhat physically demanding, but not hard, installing the equipment - probably the easiest part of the job for me because I like messing with mechanical stuff.

The leveling was the most physical and time consuming part for us due to having to take down some woods to enlarge the area some, build up our low/wet area with Class 5, compacting, and getting it all level, etc. All of the tractors, loaders, etc belong to us and we own some gravel pits and areas with some fill so that made it cheap to do, but still a lot of hard work. The Class 5 was trucked in and the plate compactor was rented. I'm sure I made life tough for DH because I was after him to check level every 5 mins throughout the entire install and make adjustments accordingly - if you don't work well with your co-builder (read spouse) in situations that require specific attention to detail then this isn't the job for you either. There is no rushing or shortcuts unless you want problems later.

Our liner went in so well we thought something must be wrong - we were just lucky and also had researched and gotten good advice - this was our first JHook liner and we weren't sure how well that would go. Overlaps are easier but this wasn't hard either. Good prep and taking our time made all the difference.

Everything went in so easy on our pool - but then, it doesn't have a single screw outside of the wall bolts and the skimmer bolts, The framework all clips together with a big 1/4 turn vinyl bolt on top therefore, the liner was the hardest part - only because with a 30' round pool, it was a big PIA to try and get the wrinkles out!

The good thing was I had the pad built up and prepped by a neighbour/contractor, and all I did was level/compact the screenings and sand.
It was work, but nothing hard (except physical).

UPDATE:
First off, I have to say that my DW Dawn is doing a great job helping out. I'd be much farther behind (and even more exhausted) if it wasn't for her pitching in. Team project is much more fun than solo nightmare:D .

EXCAVATING DONE. We rented a John Deere D35 mini-excavator. We probably could have done a bit better with a bobcat with lift bucket, but it went well for roughing in. By my calculations (possibly off) we hauled out 6 yards of dirt. I hadn't figured out best place to put this so we just "leveled" out a different part of our back yard. (We're on a shy quarter acre suburb plot so not a lot of room to shoehorn stuff in.)

POOL RECEIVED 6/16: Two palates (650 lbs) dropped off. Yesterday we checked all boxes and the count matches the invoice. Looks like we're ready to go.

TOOL PREP IS DONE. We just went to Home Depot for extra screwdrivers and patio blocks for each post. I recall something about someone not doing patio blocks


WATCH INSTALL VIDEOS DONE. Looks like more work than I planned, but not by much. Patio blocks under each of the 18 support locations and digging down the tower assemblies will take a bit of time.

LEVELING IN PROGRESS: Leveling by hand. I notched a 10' board and I've leveled out a couple strips to lay 2"x2" boards (which I checked for level). I'll drag the notched board along and pull out high spots and fill in low spots. I expect this to take the next 3 hours of my life to get done.


BK has a good point. In retrospect I'd have liked to just hire a top-notch team of pool installers to knock it out in a few days. However in the Western Washington Puget Sound area (just NE of Seattle) my chances of getting a rusty pool contractor or team of people that know how to dig holes and level patios was more likely what I'd find. (We don't even know anyone in the area that has a pool.) After I read many posts about pool profesionals in sunnier areas having problems I figured I'd rather pay for my own mistakes than pay someone else for the same. I'll never know if it was the right choice, but so far I think we are doing OK.

Plumbing and electrical are intentionally not included yet. I can handle only so much planning at one time. I feel like Johnny nmemonic jacked with twice the data capacity stuffed into my head. I need to complete construction before I work out plumbing and electirical details. For now I'm figuring extension cord and quick run for Sched40 & elbows and ball valves to get started... I know I need to do more planning for ball valves.... but wife is kicking me off now because we need to finish leveling:D. More to come.

12x24x54" AGP received 6/16/2007. Some assembly required. Batteries not included.

Your on your way - before you know it you will be swimming. BTW, we want PICTURES.

Day 3 UPDATE:

Looks like my optimistic schedule is officially derailed. No sand today. Heck, we haven't even opened the boxes or pre-assembled the center towers yet. What's worse is that I took a vacation day today to get everything in good shape. Looks like I'll take a couple evenings digging and preassembling towers, then this weekend

Long day digging (1:30PM-10PM=8.5hrs, 4+ with DW). We have over 3/4 of the pool area leveled by hand. So far it is really level (within 1/4 inch everywhere I check). The hardpan was really tough going in several spots. We didn't dig too deep with the excavator so we'd have a solid bottom. Good news is it's solid. Bad news is we manually dug out 2-6" of rocky packed soil from several locations. Tough going, but funny enough I found it very rewarding. I think we hauled out about 3 yards of dirt by wheelbarrel (I lost count after about 12 heavily loaded wheelbarrel

My dear wife thinks I'm crazy, but she is patient and willing to help out still. We even got the kids to help dig. I'll try to post that picture sometime (and keep it forever as proof that our kids did help out).

Turns out we dug down 14" at far side of our dig site.

QUESTION: What's the best way to finish the walls that will be 8" to 14" below ground level we have dug out?
Our wall will be 14" below ground level at one side and ~8" down for most the rest of the area. We'll have about 2-6" between wall and the dirt, so I either need to excavate more (which isn't good right next to our existing deck about 18" away) or I need to protect the pool wall from corrosion that would be caused by dirt backfilled right up against the pool wall (after water filled of course).

My current idea is to line the space between outside wall and dirt with weed barrier, then fill the insert with pea gravel to ensure moisture isn't locked against the exterior wall all the time. This will make fine drainage AND it is removable if I find out that this is not a good option. I've read somewhere that applying tar to the wall exterior is good for preventing moisture damage, but I'm not sure what kind or if this really is a good idea.

Oh yeah, did I mention that it was raining yesterday morning and this morning? I've been tarping over half the pool and keeping a 10x10 canopy over the other half. So far that has left the soil workable with only minor mud situations (mainly between pool and the dumping site). Now we just need to figure out what to do with all this extra fill dirt... after the pool is constructed. Focusing on the pool. Must construct pool...

Wups, DW just fell asleep next to me (we just finished watching "Good Eats" popcorn episode on Food Network). I should probably get some sleep too. I'm near performance reviews at work. As long as my fingers are still working tomorrow I should be OK. Most the rest of my body aches but that's fine with me :).

Sorry, I have photos but I need to open an account on Flickr, SmugMug (costs money after 14days), or look up other hosting service. I may just host on my Windows Live Space tomorrow :) . Bed time.

Sounds like you're doing well with the progress.
For posting pics, go to www.photobucket.com - free and relatively unlimited.
The biggest screw up in any home built pool project WILL be the timeline for building the pool - I thought my pool would get set up in one weekend, weather got in the way and postponed the job for over a week, in total, I probably spent 3 days at it including levelling and compacting screenings and sand as well as the entire pool build right up to filling.
Electrical and proper plumbing was one more day, finishing the entire area around the pool for no maintenance - 3 years!

Oh I remember well! Yep, we had those kind of setbacks too but alloted enough time (you can see how long it took!) so that we could do some each day without getting too ticked off at setbacks. We even took a vacation in there at the end and when we came back we were refreshed and ready to go at it full force again.

If the pool is going to be in that location forever, then I think Dennis mentioned the tar option for backfilling protection. Who is going to see it if it never gets pulled out except to put a new one in many years down the road? The other option is to dig out further and build a retaining wall which a lot of people do.

BTW, I use Photobucket too. Easy to use, free.

Day 3.5 UPDATE: We are 100% LEVEL!

6/20 7PM-10PM finished off leveling (3hrs)
Hour tally:
~4hrs sod cutting (including rental pickup and dropoff)
~2hrs sod rolling and stacking near pool site
~10hrs excavator + pickup roughing out the hole
~13hrs hand leveling
--------------
~30hrs total excavation
Most work completed within 4 day period!

I have verified all locations around edges and middle are within 1/4" using laser level and tripod.

HAND-LEVELING TECHNIQUE: During leveling I'd confirm level and depth (with laser) for two rows about 10' apart, then lay 2"x2" straight boards in the level rows. Then drag a 10' long 2"x6" board that I made notches in to accomodate the 2"x2" boards. See picture of me digging for a visual example of how this works. High spots raise the leveling board, low spots show a gap.
TIP: Grab some extra dirt and throw it into the low spots, then drag back over with board. Compact the filler you just added. (I wasn't more than about 1" off for my worst fill-in spots. I'm not worried at all about the foundation.)

LESSON #1: Plan how to dig with heavy machinary so you spend less time with shovel and wheelbarrel.
I wish I'd thought it through more before I did the excavating. I worked back to front, but missed some spots and didn't get as close to level as I could have. Experience gained at the expense of sore arms/back and hours of extra manual labor.

We were careful not to disturb below level and we did surprisingly good at getting within ~6" of level with the excavator in many spots.


Hardest part was shaving 1" off an entire section (6'x6') of hardpan that I had leveled but was 1" too high. What a pain.

Best part was doing excavating with the kids helping with the controls. Pictures and priceless memory.


LESSON #2: spade shovel + mattox/pick axe + laser level + 3 level boards + big level are your friends.
I thought square shovel would be helpful. Spade shovel was much better even when shaving 1/2" of loose dirt or hard pan.

Here's some pictures taken during excavation (sorry for the reverse chronological order... it's almost 1AM and I must get some sleep):

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a.../th_2007-7.jpg
leveling technique demonstrated above
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a.../th_2007-5.jpg
"ruffed" in hole
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a.../th_2007-4.jpg
Dump site after quick-and-dirty grading

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a.../th_2007-1.jpg
"a little off the top" rolling sod for re-use
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ns/th_2007.jpg
Site before the dig

Wow, that does look like hard work. You are going to appreciate your pool more than you know once it is done. We used a lot of our farm equipment to move and level - doing it by hand deserves kudos, I don't think I could have done that! How wide is the area you are digging out? Make sure you have enough around the sides cleared as well (appx 2' all around)

Well, I lost another 4 hours to digging out edges because I only dug out 14'x26 (extra 12" all around). I didn't pre-measure where the towers would align compared to my existing deck posts. Turns out the towers line up perfectly which means I had to stay farther away from the deck than I originally planned. Ugh.

Good news is there have been only minor showers and not too hot for construction. Bad news is we are just starting construction. (I'll open new thread for construction as excavation is officially done.)