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The entire pool has developed a light yellow coating that comes off if I rub crushed vitamin C on it. Is there a chemical that I can put into the water that would serve the same purpose. Do I need to post the results from my water test that I had done this week?
Yes, there is a way to get rid of the staining - you will need ascorbic acid in bulk (it is vitamin C) Here is the way to use it and two places to get ascorbic acid:
Here is the ascorbic treatment:
Here are the directions:
Take your chlorine down to 0, if there is chlorine in the water it won't hurt, it will just eat up the ascorbic acid, so you will need more to get rid of the stains.
You will need about a half to one pound of ascorbic acid per 10,000 gal. I like to go lighter on it and see if all the
Put the filter on circulate.
Use a cup and go around the perimeter of the pool and drop it down the sides as you go.
Let the ascorbic acid circulate for 1/2 hour. You will be amazed how the stain just disappears before your eyes.
If the stain is not all gone, leave the filter in circulate and add more ascorbic acid close to where you still see stain. Leave it in circulate until all of the stain is gone. (add more ascorbic acid if it circulates for 1/2 hour and there is still stain)
When the stain is gone, add enough sequestering agent for the volume of your pool - more is better than not enough.
Put the filter back on filter and leave it on 24/7.
The ascorbic acid will bring your ph down, after 24 hours you can start to bring up your ph and alkalinity - use baking soda first, it will raise both ph and alk. Make sure you test in between, because you don't wantyour ph to go any higher than 7.2. If your alkalinity is in range, and you still need to raise your ph, use Borax to take it up to no higher than 7.2. After 48 hours you can start to bring up your chlorine. You want to do this slowly. It will take a lot of chlorine - I prefer to use bleach only at this time, and try to take it up to your minimum chlorine for your cya according to the "best guess chart" Do not shock! Do not shock for at least 2 weeks! Make sure you keep your ph low for (7.2) for a week or two - it won't be hard because the ascorbic acid will help it stay low. Once your chlorine starts to hold, it means that you have used up the ascorbic acid in the water and it will be easy to rebalance the pool back to your regular parameters. You may want to use a polyquat algacide as a deterrant to getting algae while your chlorine is low.
Here are two links to buy ascorbic acid:
http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ascorbic_Acid.htm
feel free to ask any questions you may have:)
I seem to be having the same problem. I used a commercial Stain Treatment about 10 days ago ($25.00/lb) The stain is now back- it is not a metal stain because I used a little of the Stain Treatment on the stain and it immeadiately disappeared- I then tested a small area with Metal Out and it did nothing. So I am now ordering Vit C but do you have any idea why the stain came back. FC-5; CC-0; TA-120; PH- 7.5; Calcium- 100; CYA- 50.
The stain treatment I used is be Haviland Chemical and I am certain it is ascorbic acid powder. 24 hr after treatment I started bringing my FC up and then adjusted my pH and TA. 5 days after I did the treatment I had t go out of town and it was raining so I added a bag of ultra shock and some polyquat. I cam back 2 days later to the stain- my water has been consistent- with0 CC when testing but I cant figure out why the stain. Any ideas?
I am going to follow your directions when I get my ascorbic acid in. It is hot, humid and sunny during the dayand rainy in the late afternoon and early evening. Should I worry about algae when I lower my chlorine to 0 for 48 hrs/ I will use Polyquat but should I just use 3-4 oz as prevention or more as if I am traeating an algae problem. Sorry if these questions seem stupid - I have a tendency to over think or over do.
Did you add any sequestering agent after putting in the stain treatment? You say that it is not a metal stain, but ascorbic acid removes metal stains - metal out is a sequestering agent, not a stain remover. Chlorine will remove organic stains only. The other thing is you should not shock the pool for at least 2 weeks after a stain treatment. You have to bring your chlorine up to the low end of your chart (the best guess chart sticky in the chlorine forum), starting 48 hours after the the treatment. You can put a maintainence dose of algaecide in since you have already put it in the water before you left on your trip. I like to use bleach and raise the chlorine slowly - you can also put a chlorine puck in the skimmer basket if you have a sand or DE filter. Keep your fliter running 24/7. You don't have to let your chlorine drop to 0 for 48 hours before the treatment. Just let it drop down to 1 or 2ppms. It will not hurt the ascorbic acid, it will just use up some of it faster. But just make sure you put the pump on circulate for about an hour or two or until all of the stain is lifted off and make sure there is enough sequestereing agent in the water. There are no stupid questions:)
Do you have a particular sequestering agent that you use? I just went out and look what I have is not Metal Out but Metal Magic I would think it is probably the same thing. I added it to the pool after I added the Haviland Stain Treatment last time. Any idea what causes this stain?
I have used metal magic by proteam. They are all bascially the same. Jack's Magic is good, Sequasol and Metal Free too. The one thing is not to shock the pool until all of the metal is sequestered. Most stain removal products say not to shock for at least 2 weeks. I usually put a little more sequestering agent in again in about 7 days after the treatment. The important thing is to keep your ph down at about 7 to 7.3 while you are adding chlorine, and add the chlorine slowly, a couple of ppms a day till you get it to shock if you need to get it to shock. If there is no combined chlorine, there is no reason to take it to shock. Just keep the chlorine at the low end of the "best guess chart" - but you must test frequently so that you don't let it get too low and get an algae bloom.
Mbar is the metals expert here, and I'm not questioning what she is telling you at all. I just want to point out that sometimes you can eliminate the metal stains without the ascorbic acid treatment. I have iron in my fill water, and have had staining a several times. My stains have always lifted with the use of the metal sequestrant alone. It's worth trying the metal sequestrant alone first, making sure that you put enough of it in to keep all of the metal in solution. You will need the metal sequestrant anyway, even if you use the ascorbic acid for the stains.
My pool is vinyl, I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I suspect that the age of the stains plays a part too.....if they are relatively fresh, the sequestrant alone is more likely to do the job.
daisy11 is exactly right, you can often lift stains by lowering the ph to 7 and putting in the sequeterer. It does matter how long the stains are there, and a vinyl liner is easier to lift the stains from. Also if you have a fiberglass pool, they tend to stain much easier, and more often. Another thing that works with a fiberglass pool if you only have a few noticeable stains is to get a very fine sandpaper and sand the stain. If the whole pool is stained, you will need to do a treatment, either with the sequestering agent (you should try this first, because you need it in the water with the ascorbic acid), and if that doesn't work, then the ascorbic acid. The reason that metals fall out of solution is with a combination of high ph along with high chlorine. There are many ways to get metals into the water - fill source, and plumbing. and wind blown.
Thanks for your help. A couple more question...If I go ahead and purchase the Vitamin C, as so informed above, what Sequestrant should I purchase, how much, and from where? Thank god for smart people like all of you!!!!
Any sequestering agent is fine - Jack's Magic, Sequasol, Metal Free, Metal Magic, they are all basically the same. Metal Free has no phosphates. You can follow the directions on the bottle. What kind of pool do you have, and how many gallons does it hold? I can tell you amounts with the information.:)
I have a salt water, fiberglass, that holds 17,000 gallons. Any more help would be appreciated.
You can use Jack's Magic the purple stuff is made especially for salt water pools. Otherwise you can do the ascorbic stain treatment as posted above, except I would turn the salt generator off until after the treatment is finished and the water is rebalanced. Feel free to ask any other questions you have:)
I'm the original poster here. I have a 17,000 gallon pool and used ascorbic acid to remove the yellowing. About 10 days later the yellowing is starting to re-appear. So, as asvised I purchases some Jack's magic and am waiting for it to come in. The question that I have now is...how much of Jack's Magic should I have purchased. when I contacted Jack's Magic website, this is their response, but I wanted to check here before I bought more. I have one on quart on the way.
Reply from Jack's Magic...
"Jon you need to put 2qts of purple stuff in your pool.
Then you need to prevent them from coming back. You need to put 12 to 16
oz a week to prevent them. If you would like you may buy a sequesting
test kit for the correct amount of purple stuff you need weekly in your
pool. it takes 3oz to raise your level 1ppm. If you have anymore
questions I may answer for you feel free to call us Thanks
John Virga
customer service
(800)348-1656 EXT 111"
So, my question is, do you all agree with the response from Jack's Magic?
Thanks,
Jon
I have never even heard of a sequestering test kit - but there are a lot of things I have never heard of :) I do know however, that Jack's Magic tends to use more product than is really needed. I would suggest buying some - and just watch for stains - when you see some forming, take your ph down to 7, and add 1/2 bottle. I don't do a matainence dose, I just watch - sometimes even just taking your ph down will lightnen the stains. You will get your own routine down after a while. I always keep some ascorbic acid on hand too - this way if the sequestering agent and low ph don't work on the stain, I add a little ascorbic right down the side where the stains are noticeable and let the water circulate - most of the time there isn't much chemistry change. Just make sure you keep your ph at 7 - 7.4 with a fiberglass pool - I find with my pool, when the ph gets above 7.6 I start to see stain. Hope this helps - I am sure Jack's Magic really knows about stains - and can get you to keep a stain free pool, but it does get to be expensive using all that "purple stuff", when it may not be needed.;)
Thanks Marie. One more question, is their a cheaper alternative to the purple stuff that I should consider?
I think they are all about the same - there are cheaper ones, but with a fiberglass pool you need the better ones. I ususally look for something online that is on sale. Some of the good ones are Proteams Metal Magic, Metal Free, & Sequasol. There are more too, but I can't think of the names:o Right now I am using proteams metal magic and it works really well. This and Jack's Magic are my favorites so far.
Thanks Mbar. Your help is very much appreciated. I'll keep you updated on how it goes.
You will need about 1 and 1/2 quarts of the purple stuff (or any other HEDP based sequesteant that uses 1 qt per 10 k gallons) initially. You might need to add a maintenance dose weekly, every two weeks or you might be able to get by with a monthly maintenance dose. I would start doing it weekly for a few weeks and then slack off to every two weeks. If the stains start to reappear go back to weekly. A lot depends on your chlorine levels, which can break down the sequstering ablility of HEDP. If you are staying stain free on a two week schedule then try only adding the maintenance dose monthly.
For a lower priced alternative I have had good results with Proteam's metal magic but even a ''house brand" will be equally effective. You want the active ingredient to be HEDP or phosphonic acid or a phosphonic acid derivative. If the ingredients are not listed on the label consult the MSDS for the product.
As far as testing sequesterant level in the water, Jack's Magic has a test kit for it (very expensive, IMHO) but it really is not necessary in most cases. LaMotte also has a sequestering agent test kit available for pools. Taylor has test kits but they are made for the boiler/cooling market and not for pools and are extremely expensive.
If you just observe your pool and learn how often you need to add a maintenance dose to keep your pool stain free you don't need to test.
My pool only needs a HEDP based sequesterant monthly but if I use an EDTA based sequesterant such as MetalFree I need to add it weekly or every two weeks.
Edit: If the staining is not extensive you can often eliminate it with a double or even triple dose of sequesterant and by dropping the pH as stated earlier in the thread. Put the sequesterant in first and test the pH since the sequesterant will drop the pH some on its own. This is usually more expensive than treating with ascorbic acid but it does not cause the chlorine demand problem. It just eats up the TA!:eek:
I've just started reading this thread and don't mean to get in the way but there may be others wondering like me--what does a sequestering agent do? My gunite pool has has an old plaster coat with several stains but I never really thought I could remove them so I just dream of a new plaster job.
It is possible to remvove certain stains from plaster but sometimes the process can take a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumo1
This thread has some more information about sequesterant and chelating agents and reducidng agents.