5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Help please! This is our 1st year with BBB. We opened the pool last Saturday, 3 days ago. First thing I checked was the PH, and it was less than 7.0. So having no clue how much Borax was needed, I added a box and retested in 2 hours. No improvement. So I added another and retested again... still way too low.
So far as of yesterday I've added 5 boxes and the PH is still registering under 7.0. (see comment about the test level yesterday below) We have an inground 25000 gallon vinyl pool.
The other numbers last night after the 5 boxes of Borax were:
FC 8.0
CC 0
Alk 160
PH 6.8 (according to the simple OTO and also strips I checked with )
CYA 0 (was waiting to add until I was sure we wouldn't need to backwash for a couple days)
Cal Hardness 150 (I didn't write it down, but I'm sure it was right in that area)
Please don't chew me out for not getting the Taylor PH, I assumed the liquid part of the OTO test would be OK and I have 2 bottle of solution in the fridge that I wanted to finish up first. In addition, I used 2 different brands of test strips, neither of which is past the expiration date. And all 3 consistantly gave me the same readings.
Yesterday the PH had gotten up into the 7.6 range (again all 3 ways I tested matched each other), but today when I tested (all 3 yet again), its right back down to under 7 much to my dismay.
The only thing I've added besides bleach and Borax, was one 5 pound jug of PoolTime Shock plus Clarifier. I added that PoolTime shock right when we opened. Other than that, nothing else.
Also, the water is crystal clear.
Help anyone?
Edit because I forgot to say I just went out there and added 2 more boxes. I hope that wasn't a mistake. I did that before thinking of making a thread :)
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Whenever chemicals don't do what you expect, it always casts doubt on your test results. Some pH test methods are inaccurate at high chlorine levels. A pool store test would be a good sanity test right now.
A good way to figure out what's going on is to take a 5 gallon bucket of pool water and experiment. A cup of borax ought to make a big difference in the pH of that bucket of water. If it doesn't, try it again with tap water. That ought to give you an idea of what is happening.
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Ok one thing I totally forgot till I was outside, was that last night around 6 p.m. we added one jug (I believe 6 pounds) of stablilizer. Then we've had the filter on since then. Would that cause a temp drop in PH?
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Yes. Stabilizer is highly acidic. It's Cyanuric Acid and is literally an acid and it's strong enough to show a serious drop in pH with the amount you add. It also dissolves slowly so you'll be fighting this drop until it fully dissolves.
Every pound of stabilizer will require about 1.3 pounds of 20 Mule Team Borax to maintain pH.
Richard
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
So I'll just keep adding Borax daily for the next few days until I get the stablilizer all dissolved. I better inform Meijer that they don't stock enough of it to meet my pool needs. :D
Since we just got a new liner last thing in the fall before we closed, I was worried I was off to a poor start this spring. Sounds like I'm OK for now after all.
Thanks so much guys!
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Your alkalinity is a little high, so you can also turn your return jets up so that the water bubbles on top - it will raise your ph while lowering you alk. killing two birds with one stone:) You want the alk between 80-120.
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Excellent suggestion Marie! Only add enough Borax to keep the pH around 7.0 if the aeration isn't enough to keep the pH there all by itself.
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Well crap, I thought Borax wasn't supposed to increase the alkalinity much.
I fought that vicious circle back when I used pucks.
PH low, raise ph. Find alk too high, add acid. PH low, raise ph. Find alk too high again. etc etc etc
Turning the jets up sounds easy enough, but won't that affect the way the pool gets circulated?
Edit: also, how can you aerate that way when you use a solar cover?
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doggie
Well XXXX , I thought Borax wasn't supposed to increase the alkalinity much.
It doesn't. But T/A moves up and down with pH. As pH goes up, so does T/A.
Quote:
I fought that vicious circle back when I used pucks.
PH low, raise ph. Find alk too high, add acid. PH low, raise ph. Find alk too high again. etc etc etc
Part if it was not understanding the mechanism. T/A rises and falls with pH. Soda Ash, however, increases T/A MORE than that rise-and-fall ratio. But Borax, which only increases pH, doesn't prevent the rise-and-fall.
Only aeration can raise pH without raising T/A.
Quote:
Turning the jets up sounds easy enough, but won't that affect the way the pool gets circulated?
Not too much. You don't HAVE to turn up the jets--it just makes aeration go faster. So will a crowd of 10-12 year old boys turning your water into a maelstrom!;)
Quote:
Edit: also, how can you aerate that way when you use a solar cover?
You can't. Sorry about that, but get your chemistry correct first, before trying to warm the pool.
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
doggie,
If you believe that your TA used to be lower and that it has gone up, then as Carl says that wouldn't have come from the Borax. Most likely, it came from your fill water. Is your fill water from a well? Have you tested it for TA and CH? That's my best guess of what may be happening. In any event, Marie is absolutely right that now is a great time to lower the TA since you've already got a slowly dissolving acid in your pool and that's perfect for lowering TA through lots of aeration.
Richard
Re: 5 Boxes of Borax later.... PH STILL very low
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chem geek
doggie,
If you believe that your TA used to be lower and that it has gone up, then as Carl says that wouldn't have come from the Borax. Most likely, it came from your fill water. Is your fill water from a well? Have you tested it for TA and CH? That's my best guess of what may be happening. In any event, Marie is absolutely right that now is a great time to lower the TA since you've already got a slowly dissolving acid in your pool and that's perfect for lowering TA through lots of aeration.
Richard
Richard's right. My fill water, which is public water, frequently runs a T/A of 180ppm--safe to drink, of course. You should check it.
